CD Player / Transport with Digital Out

[georgeincanada]

But doesn't it go to an external DAC in both cases, the CD transport and the CD player used with an external DAC?

Thanks for your reply, TheBatsEar. Yes, sorry, I should have been more specific, and what I'm trying to say is that there is this philosophy, and logic that more than a couple of reviewers have expressed that components of CD Mechanism, and DAC electronic circuits must ideally be separate.

Such separation is for the prevention, or at least the lessening to a large amount, of RF Interference.

Then I forgot to add there is less Jitter, as they the reviewers say, in a Transport if compared to a CD Player; even if that CDP is expensive, and designed very well.

If that is the case with RF Interference, or also with EMI (electromagnetic interference) why not design a layout within the case of a CD Player that has a couple of small walls separating the CD Mechanism, Laser Assembly from the DAC Circuits?

Although CD Transports have specialized electronics, there are less electronics, anyhow! Why are many of those separate Transports so expensive? And more than a couple of Transports, even used up to a dozen, or 20 years, are outrageously expensive.

I'm wondering if I should make a purchase of a CD Transport; or maybe be satisfied with at least 2 very good CD Players that I have connected to my Sony Receiver by way of Coaxial, and Optical Cables. Anyway, I'm searching for a used, but functional CD Transport.

I'm a bit of a miser; I've spent plenty of time, and money on turntable parts, and supplies; but that's another story. I've gone off the topic; only saying I don't want to spend more money for a hi fi audio product that's not actually necessary. May not make more of difference; not certain. Besides I'm running out of shelf space.

 

[Angsty]

Why are many of those separate Transports so expensive? And more than a couple of Transports, even used up to a dozen, or 20 years, are outrageously expensive.

Why? Because audiophiles pay more. As a target customer, they have more disposable income than average, are willing to pay a lot for small perceived improvements and are largely unscientific in their scrutiny. It’s a perfect demographic to overcharge.

Amir just measured a $4 RCA cable this week. It will perform the same as a $400 cable. Guess which one is more likely to be owned by an audiophile.

 

[Angsty]

Anyway, I'm searching for a used, but functional CD Transport.

Find a used CD player whose ergonomics you like, with a remote you like that has a digital coax out. A dedicated transport will likely be more expensive and no better in audio performance.

If you must have a dedicated transport, the Cambridge Audio CXC can generally be found used for less than US $250 and will fill the role nicely. If you must have AES/EBU output, prices go way up.

The last “transport” I bought earlier this year was a newish Insignia 6 disc CD changer. Works great for me into my external Topping DAC, but sounds exactly the same if I use the player RCA outputs.

 

[Putter]

At this point my primary considerations for digital transport/readers (aka CD , DVD, Blu-ray players) are ergonomic and transport noise. Are they quiet running? Do they have a good display? Can they play CD/DVD/SACD/Blu-ray? For example many BluRay players have minimal or in the case of the Sony UBX-800 universal player that I picked up for a song at a thrift, NO DISPLAY! Well you can use your monitor. Why would I want to use my monitor to play CD's, SACD's and Audio BluRay's?

Thus I end up using an older Denon DVD player for CD's and DVD's because it has a good display. I still have a bunch of older Magnavox CD players because they supposedly had the best transports although I've haven't found any difference in playing scratched CD's for virtually any player.

 

[Vacceo]

Does the device itself emit noise? I have had bad experiences with bluray devices, they almost sounded like early cdrom drives.

Sometimes before it starts sending data, the motor cranks a bit. While playing, not a noise.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Thanks for your reply, TheBatsEar. Yes, sorry, I should have been more specific, and what I'm trying to say is that there is this philosophy, and logic that more than a couple of reviewers have expressed that components of CD Mechanism, and DAC electronic circuits must ideally be separate.

Such separation is for the prevention, or at least the lessening to a large amount, of RF Interference.

I get the argument, it sounds logical at the surface.
But again, while we might be able to make measurements that support this, can we measure it in the result coming from the speakers? Can it be ABXed?
This is the step never taken by those claiming there are differences. Those that did the ABXing, don't claim it anymore.

If i where you, i would rather concentrate on speakers and room acoustics, DSP and so on. The differences in DACs and transports are minute, if they exist at all. To me these, including cables and amps, are all solved problems.

Well, unless you like to touch nice audio jewelry, then by all means, get a shiny CD transport

 

[georgeincanada]

I get the argument, it sounds logical at the surface.
But again, while we might be able to make measurements that support this, can we measure it in the result coming from the speakers? Can it be ABXed?
This is the step never taken by those claiming there are differences. Those that did the ABXing, don't claim it anymore.

If i where you, i would rather concentrate on speakers and room acoustics, DSP and so on. The differences in DACs and transports are minute, if they exist at all. To me these, including cables and amps, are all solved problems.

Well, unless you like to touch nice audio jewelry, then by all means, get a shiny CD transport

Thank you, TheBatsEar. Thank you very much for further technical advice on the deeper details of the digital dance toward a delivery to a destination of that mysterious alteration to analogue sound.

 

[georgeincanada]

Why? Because audiophiles pay more. As a target customer, they have more disposable income than average, are willing to pay a lot for small perceived improvements and are largely unscientific in their scrutiny. It’s a perfect demographic to overcharge.

Amir just measured a $4 RCA cable this week. It will perform the same as a $400 cable. Guess which one is more likely to be owned by an audiophile.

Thank you very much, Angsty. Yes, when it is about Cables I don't believe that there should be an expense far beyond a hundred dollars; depending on how far an RCA Cables, or a very long Coaxial Cable is going to reach a hi fi audio component such as a CD Player, or Subwoofer. Besides, cable companies such as KabelDirekt RCA Stereo Audio Cable, and Blue Jeans Cable make very good interconnects; I've got a couple of those RCA Cables connected. However, I understand what you are saying.

​

 

[Angsty]

Thanks for your reply, TheBatsEar. Yes, sorry, I should have been more specific, and what I'm trying to say is that there is this philosophy, and logic that more than a couple of reviewers have expressed that components of CD Mechanism, and DAC electronic circuits must ideally be separate.

Such separation is for the prevention, or at least the lessening to a large amount, of RF Interference.

Then I forgot to add there is less Jitter, as they the reviewers say, in a Transport if compared to a CD Player; even if that CDP is expensive, and designed very well.

If that is the case with RF Interference, or also with EMI (electromagnetic interference) why not design a layout within the case of a CD Player that has a couple of small walls separating the CD Mechanism, Laser Assembly from the DAC Circuits?

Although CD Transports have specialized electronics, there are less electronics, anyhow! Why are many of those separate Transports so expensive? And more than a couple of Transports, even used up to a dozen, or 20 years, are outrageously expensive.

I'm wondering if I should make a purchase of a CD Transport; or maybe be satisfied with at least 2 very good CD Players that I have connected to my Sony Receiver by way of Coaxial, and Optical Cables. Anyway, I'm searching for a used, but functional CD Transport.

I'm a bit of a miser; I've spent plenty of time, and money on turntable parts, and supplies; but that's another story. I've gone off the topic; only saying I don't want to spend more money for a hi fi audio product that's not actually necessary. May not make more of difference; not certain. Besides I'm running out of shelf space.

Before buying any transport, consider trying out both of your CD players in various configurations to see if you can hear a difference in blind testing. Unless something is broken, you are likely not to hear any consistent difference when level matched.

 

[georgeincanada]

Before buying any transport, consider trying out both of your CD players in various configurations to see if you can hear a difference in blind testing. Unless something is broken, you are likely not to hear any consistent difference when level matched.

Okay, thank you, Angsty. I'm going to try that procedure out with a CD Player.

 

[student of history]

I just purchased a vintage (1994) Made in Japan Sony Carousel (Sony CDP-C445) in its original packaging, mostly for an older family member who is ailing and who likes the tactile experience of using CD players (and specifically carousels). But a strange thing happened. I realized that I feel very much the same way, even though I've taken to Spotify and enjoy other online services.

The player itself looks and operates as if it were brand new. It's a real nostalgia rush. I didn't even really like carousels in the good old 1990s, but not having to look at a phone/laptop screen, and handling the discs, and the excellent play exchange feature, make me want to listen to all my music again. Plus it has TOSLINK out, and it works beautifully with my Topping E30.

Some of the other pluses: quiet and quick operation, extremely legible info display, decent remote, direct number buttons for tracks and discs (and all the other functions on the remote!), and very low price (~$100 from Amazon Warehouse, with their return policy should it fail). It's very nice looking too. But best of all is that it sounds incredible. Without double blind testing I can hear no difference at all between the e30 and the Sony's own DAC.

The overall tactile experience, esp. having all controls on the faceplate, makes a huge difference.

Before this I had a decent JVC that I bought new 30 years ago that was similar in operation. But it had no TOSLINK, no carousel, and gave up the ghost a few years ago. If I get a few years out of this Sony I'll be pleased as punch.

 

[Angsty]

I just purchased a vintage (1994) Made in Japan Sony Carousel (Sony CDP-C445) in its original packaging, mostly for an older family member who is ailing and who likes the tactile experience of using CD players (and specifically carousels). But a strange thing happened. I realized that I feel very much the same way, even though I've taken to Spotify and enjoy other online services.

The player itself looks and operates as if it were brand new. It's a real nostalgia rush. I didn't even really like carousels in the good old 1990s, but not having to look at a phone/laptop screen, and handling the discs, and the excellent play exchange feature, make me want to listen to all my music again. Plus it has TOSLINK out, and it works beautifully with my Topping E30.

Some of the other pluses: quiet and quick operation, extremely legible info display, decent remote, direct number buttons for tracks and discs (and all the other functions on the remote!), and very low price (~$100 from Amazon Warehouse, with their return policy should it fail). It's very nice looking too. But best of all is that it sounds incredible. Without double blind testing I can hear no difference at all between the e30 and the Sony's own DAC.

The overall tactile experience, esp. having all controls on the faceplate, makes a huge difference.

Before this I had a decent JVC that I bought new 30 years ago that was similar in operation. But it had no TOSLINK, no carousel, and gave up the ghost a few years ago. If I get a few years out of this Sony I'll be pleased as punch.

I also enjoy the tactile nature of CDs and CD changers. I had a couple of Sony carousel players in the 90's that did not go the distance. I purchased a NAD T 572 around 2002 that's still in use today. My latest addition, the Insignia CDC 3.4 is the best of the lot for capacity (6 discs vs 5), speed, and controls (on-unit and remote). I was surprised and pleased that Integra (Onkyo) was still making CD changers.

I'd recommend it as a transport or player for the die hard CD enthusiast. Using it as a player instead of a transport gives up nothing in audible performance.

 

[nn_in]

There is really no way a transport will deliver anything different than a CD player with digital out or a DVD player or a Blu-Ray player will.

Ever hear the expression "bits is bits"? It's true. It's 1s and 0s.

Does this mean a entry level dvd player with coax out can do the same job as the stand alone CD transport ?

 

[jsrtheta]

Does this mean a entry level dvd player with coax out can do the same job as the stand alone CD transport ?

Yes.

 

[nn_in]

Yes.

Thanks.Does the coax out from the entry level dvd player have more jitter compared to stand alone cd transports ? .

But I guess the external clock in dac will reclock and take care of the jitter

Also from the ASR forum i infer amazon basic cables can do the job .

What does the mechanical transport and optical head pickup contribute to the audio fidelity.Iam assuming none as the final coax out is a bunch 1 and 0s

 

[jsrtheta]

Thanks.Does the coax out from the entry level dvd player have more jitter compared to stand alone cd transports ? .

But I guess the external clock in dac will reclock and take care of the jitter

Also from the ASR forum i infer amazon basic cables can do the job .

What does the mechanical transport and optical head pickup contribute to the audio fidelity.Iam assuming none as the final coax out is a bunch 1 and 0s

I don't think jitter is a real issue. It's a thing, for sure, but it is, in my understanding, almost never audible. (I remember when the online "audiophile" community went through a craze for a Toshiba DVD player which retailed for about sixty bucks that supposedly had the best sound of any transport you could buy. Think about that.)

Yes, the DAC will reclock the signal anyway.

For analog cables, just about any make will do. Digital coax cables should really be 75 ohm, but, frankly, I can't say how critical that is. I once tried a 15 foot length of very cheap analog XLR cable in place of a 1 meter 110 ohm AES/EBU digital cable and I couldn't hear any difference. But understand, too, that there are people here on this list who know way more about digital audio (and everything else audio) than I do, so hunt around for better opinions than mine. I'm a hobbyist, but they're pros.

 

[sq225917]

That particular dvd player had a perfect spdif output, 2v p-p square edged virtually no overshoot and well buffeted, simply excellent.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't think jitter is a real issue. It's a thing, for sure, but it is, in my understanding, almost never audible. (I remember when the online "audiophile" community went through a craze for a Toshiba DVD player which retailed for about sixty bucks that supposedly had the best sound of any transport you could buy. Think about that.)

Yes, the DAC will reclock the signal anyway.

For analog cables, just about any make will do. Digital coax cables should really be 75 ohm, but, frankly, I can't say how critical that is. I once tried a 15 foot length of very cheap analog XLR cable in place of a 1 meter 110 ohm AES/EBU digital cable and I couldn't hear any difference. But understand, too, that there are people here on this list who know way more about digital audio (and everything else audio) than I do, so hunt around for better opinions than mine. I'm a hobbyist, but they're pros.

Analog XLR cables have about 110 ohm impedance which is why they made that the digital standard. So they were interchangeable.

 

[MacCali]

I just bought the Ub-9000 and an open box 820 to compare the CD player performance via coax. Going to be hard with memory lapsing, but I only purchased the 9000 for better jitter.

Video wise they should be the same, in my thread on which bdp to buy everyone said the same thing. However being an Audio Scientist pushed me to get the better measuring unit just to see.

Honestly though as a CD player, which on other forums was told is better quality than streaming or the best way to play music I am frankly not impressed.

The only thing I could say, and probably makes no sense, is that it does sound a touch more dynamic for swings. I bought a few used classical cd’s and my own personal collection and that’s honestly the only difference I heard edit: vs my streamer, I could possibly say my pc -> Eitr is also better than the CD player

With my streamer I get way better stage, separation, and stronger bass.

This is my first ever CD player and I say probably makes no sense since my DAC is a D70s which probably has more dynamic range than your average unit.

So either the UB9000 ain’t a good CD player or it is and that’s as good as it’s going to get with a cd which is unfortunate and I was told nonsense. @nn_in

Maybe someone can target the bs I was fed. Definitely not my components bottlenecking

 

[MCH]

Does this mean a entry level dvd player with coax out can do the same job as the stand alone CD transport ?

Well, there might be a difference in my experience. With the average old school CD player, you put the CD on the tray, press play, and in very few seconds you are dancing. With an entry level dvd player, it can take much longer... veeery long, somehow it ruins the experience for me, though i understand it might not matter to others...