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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

Anton D

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Killdozer, like some others, are not engaging in any real attempt to understand the motivations of people in regard to the vinyl phenomenon. Mostly it’s just an exercise and self gratifying pop psychology, attributing to others the more base motivations.

"There is nothing really mysterious about records. You have preference, nostalgia and ego-stroking. These cover all aspects of the renaissance. It only fails to explain a casual "every-now-and-then" listener who is not a part of the renaissance anyway."

There are many ways to enjoy this hobby, come to terms with it instead of projecting your own BS onto it.

You should have stopped with "preference." The rest just made you sound vapid.
 

MattHooper

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Vinyl records can sound really good. I was listening to "The Wall" earlier. It sounded great. I'm amazed at how good it can sound compared to the setup I had in college many years ago. Then the side ended. Instead of turning it over and continuing, I switched to the ripped CD version and listened to the same songs. It sounded even better. Objectively, it makes no sense to listen to vinyl records when better formats with better sound quality are readily available, much more convenient and less expensive.

Alternatively:

If someone finds vinyl sounds, as you say, very good that can be "good enough" for that audiophile. And then all the other things they like about vinyl, often cited here, can tip the scales to vinyl over CD/streaming for concentrated listening. After all, everyone makes their sonic compromise with "good enough," so as long as an audiophile likes the sound quality he/she can be good to go.

Further, some find they actually prefer the sound of records on their system to CDs (I often do, not always, but I find my vinyl system pretty competitive with my digital source). So that's even more incentive to prefer the vinyl experience. For others, not you.

And of course there is no "objective" choice to listen to digital or vinyl. That's a subjective choice based on preference, goals, experience etc.


It has to be nostalgia that makes us waste time and money on vinyl setups and paying more for the vinyl records.

Sure it can be pure nostalgia for some individuals. In terms of explaining the wide ranging vinyl phenomenon, it's a lot more than nostalgia, as documented pretty fully through this thread.

Even so, I would probably spend a little more time listening to them if I didn't have to flip it over or switch to something else every ~15 to ~20 minutes.

For some that can be a bug; others a feature.

I don't mind at all getting up to flip a record. In fact I sort of like the automatic break from sitting down too long, sort of refreshes the experience getting up to flip the record. After all, the tactile nature of handling the vinyl, and interacting with the turntable is part of the pleasure. A lot of record fans seem to feel the same.
 

MattHooper

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Oh what the heck...

I love the last couple of dozen of posts that finally explained, once and for all, the vinyl renaissance. It is, indeed, because of how we learn the symbolic communication system. Yes.

I remember once, I wrote something about how vinyl-heads try to circumvent all good counter-arguments for records by developing some idiotic steam-punk BS with 2 meter tone-arms and machined TT stand weighing a ton and selling for 5 digit prices (in US dollars) and silly elaborate suspension contraptions (none of which are needed in a 500$ Denon CD Player), and immediately someone jumped to yell "strawman, strawman!!". But, learning the language... Yeah, fine. No problem there.

I have no idea what that meant.

But I suspect it's a strawman. ;)

It does even worse job explaining enjoying records since you don't read of of a record. It gets turned into a sound both when it comes to CDs and records and reaches your ear through the same medium - a sound wave propagated via air. And since you can rip the entire audible content of a record onto a CD and dupe EVERY single one of vinyl-heads, much to the glory of the "MoFi case", it's certainly not the medium nor the method of recording sound.

That doesn't follow actually.

The fact that one can digitally reproduce the sound of vinyl doesn't mean that the two mediums don't tend to sound different in regular use. Vinyl does tend to sound different, and so in principle one could prefer that medium, without claims that it's technically superior, or that it can't be reproduced digitally.

There is nothing really mysterious about records. You have preference,

Yup. But a lot is packed in to why people may prefer vinyl. Much of it documented in this thread that go beyond mere nostalgia.

nostalgia and ego-stroking.

Ego stroking?

Like: selecting what you believe to be the superior audio medium based on pure motives, and then ascribing trivializing or disparaging motivations to those who have selected the "lesser" medium, so as to feel superior in your own reasoning and motivations?

That kind of ego stroking? ;)

Renaissance is a fad that'll whither away. A bit slower than others perhaps,

I love it. Yes, a bit slower than actual "fads." LPs have been around in essentially this form for about 74 years! How many technologies have stuck it out that long without disappearing? Then we have 17 years of climbing LP sales, with a big jump this year, and projected to climb even higher in sales in coming years.
DVDs had about 9 years of growth to peak, and then were well down at 17 years later. Even CD sales started to decline by their 17 year mark. I guess every technology that doesn't last forever is a "fad."

If we want to talk about rationalizing, someone not in to records trying to pass LPs off as a "fad" is about as pop-psyche rationalization as you get.


There's a huge portion of people who are now disappointed in their purchase and the decision to go vinyl.

Can you show where you are pulling that data out from?

I keep in touch with the vinyl phenomenon, and peruse many vinyl forums, including those with many newbies, and I'm seeing nothing like what you are claiming there.
Even anecdotally, a friend of mine just inherited a super cheap turntable (like $100 or so) from a relative, and his family is having a fun time playing records. I noticed a bit of sonic sonic degradation relative to their streaming source, but they didn't and were quite happy, not really expecting any sonic revelations to begin with.

There are very few I've seen who are truly disappointed with the sound of vinyl. Many newbies express great satisfaction with the sound, others don't even expect it to sound as good as digital and the artifacts are part of what they like, and there's a large range of reactions but mostly positive overall to getting in to records.
 

Platypus20

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I notice every time I go to the music store, how extensive their vinyl section is and the number of people of all ages looking through them. The vinyl sales are very brisk, in both new and used records. They say they are still selling between 5-10 turntables a month.

I have extensive collections of both vinyl and cds. I have a lot on vinyl, that I don’t have on cd and a lot on cd that I don’t have on vinyl. I’m constantly switching between them, it depends what I want to listen to. For me, I don’t prefer either over the other, they are just media to get the music I want to listen to.
 

Galliardist

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Can you show where you are pulling that data out from?

I keep in touch with the vinyl phenomenon, and peruse many vinyl forums, including those with many newbies, and I'm seeing nothing like what you are claiming there.
Even anecdotally, a friend of mine just inherited a super cheap turntable (like $100 or so) from a relative, and his family is having a fun time playing records. I noticed a bit of sonic sonic degradation relative to their streaming source, but they didn't and were quite happy, not really expecting any sonic revelations to begin with.

There are very few I've seen who are truly disappointed with the sound of vinyl. Many newbies express great satisfaction with the sound, others don't even expect it to sound as good as digital and the artifacts are part of what they like, and there's a large range of reactions but mostly positive overall to getting in to records.
While I'm strongly tempted to agree with you on the matter, presenting a lack of dislike of vinyl on vinyl forums as the case against a group of people turning away from vinyl... doesn't really work.

There will be people who will try and dislike vinyl: I doubt most of them show up anywhere to be counted, to be honest. There will be people who get into it for a while, then use it increasingly rarely. I doubt they will show up anywhere to be counted, either, and they are likely to still go with the "I like vinyl" line in some form, even if they reach months or years of non-use.

What perhaps is most interesting about vinyl, and indeed audio more widely, are the striking divisions around media and equipment design. We still just talk about television (an older medium) despite the myriad technological changes since it first appeared (older than LP, or now newer and younger?) We see computers as a continuous development from the early beasts to what we have today. Books can be read electronically now, but nobody argues that the words are different. We don't believe that digital watches are lying to us about the time.
 

Brian Hall

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This makes no sense, however: "Objectively, it makes no sense to listen to vinyl records when better formats with better sound quality are readily available, much more convenient and less expensive."

Objectively?

:rolleyes:

Logically, it makes no sense to listen to vinyl records when better formats with better sound quality are readily available, much more convenient and less expensive.

Is that better?
 

jsrtheta

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Logically, it makes no sense to listen to vinyl records when better formats with better sound quality are readily available, much more convenient and less expensive.

Is that better?
I fully expect swallowing goldfish to make a comeback any day now.
 

Anton D

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Logically, it makes no sense to listen to vinyl records when better formats with better sound quality are readily available, much more convenient and less expensive.

Is that better?
Not really, Spock.

People are getting mixed up: being an audiophile is trying to get the most from a given format, be it FM, tape, LP, CD, SACD, streaming, etc.

Saying there is only one "objectively valid" part of this hobby, which seems for some to consist of measuring stuff and calling it perfect, is about the silliest thing I can imagine.

Maybe it's the internet making everyone think their dumb idea is correct, since there are other dummies to back them up. This is a hobby that brings some people pleasure, not a death march of SINADology.

People do hobby things for fun. I know, not logical, but something you should think about. Why the heck are you an audiophile?
 

Brian Hall

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Saying there is only one "objectively valid" part of this hobby, which seems for some to consist of measuring stuff and calling it perfect, is about the silliest thing I can imagine.

I didn't say objectively valid. Objectively better as in CDs/ripped CDs and most streaming services can easily have better sound quality than vinyl records. The gear needed to make vinyl records sound good costs more than gear needed to make CDs or streamed music sound fantastic.

People do hobby things for fun. I know, not logical, but something you should think about. Why the heck are you an audiophile?

I have never claimed to be an "audiophile". I am just someone who likes listening to good music on systems that sound great.

I am happy that we are in a golden age of audio reproduction where relatively inexpensive setups can sound better than systems costing many times as much.

I am happy that the point of diminishing returns in audio equipment is much lower than it was in the recent past and that we have great sources like ASR available to counter the subjective BS shovelers that push $5,000 streamers, $10,000 dacs, crazy priced items that give no benefit, etc.
 

Robin L

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People do hobby things for fun. I know, not logical, but something you should think about. Why the heck are you an audiophile?
I dunno - to listen to recordings from the 1930s?
(PS: that's better with digital formats as one doesn't get the wow & flutter of the LP on top of the wow & flutter of the 78s).
 

Anton D

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I didn't say objectively valid. Objectively better as in CDs/ripped CDs and most streaming services can easily have better sound quality than vinyl records. The gear needed to make vinyl records sound good costs more than gear needed to make CDs or streamed music sound fantastic.



I have never claimed to be an "audiophile". I am just someone who likes listening to good music on systems that sound great.

I am happy that we are in a golden age of audio reproduction where relatively inexpensive setups can sound better than systems costing many times as much.

I am happy that the point of diminishing returns in audio equipment is much lower than it was in the recent past and that we have great sources like ASR available to counter the subjective BS shovelers that push $5,000 streamers, $10,000 dacs, crazy priced items that give no benefit, etc.
Not an audiophile, but an acolyte.

If the crazy expensive crap sounded better, wouldn't you have noticed at some point?

I'm constantly amazed by all the people here who say that without ASR they'd be lost in the woods. You never, on your own, said, "This doesn't sound any better?" You'd have continued to be someone who fell for the "subjective BS?" Hallelujah, I guess.
 

Jaxjax

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I'll bet on many systems of ASR members that have vinyl & digital rigs that controlled testing of which source is playing would yield some interesting results.
 

IPunchCholla

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Logically, it makes no sense to listen to vinyl records when better formats with better sound quality are readily available, much more convenient and less expensive.
If listening to vinyl will give me more pleasure than streaming the exact same music, shouldn’t I logically choose vinyl?

While most of my listening is streaming, sometimes (a few times a week) I’ll choose to listen to a record simply because that’s what will get me into a good spot for listening.
 

IPunchCholla

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348 pages later STILL going strong about a technology that is almost 150 years old.

Are we going to bring back typewriters? The analog print with typewriters looks warmer and more organic.
Some people do go back to typewriters. Not something I would care to do, but I also wouldn’t denigrate their choice. Nobody is forcing people to listen only to vinyl.
 

Brian Hall

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If listening to vinyl will give me more pleasure than streaming the exact same music, shouldn’t I logically choose vinyl?

While most of my listening is streaming, sometimes (a few times a week) I’ll choose to listen to a record simply because that’s what will get me into a good spot for listening.

I agree with you. I still listen to vinyl records sometimes. I will also say it isn't logical to do that.
 

MattHooper

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I agree with you. I still listen to vinyl records sometimes. I will also say it isn't logical to do that.

It's logical to do things you like to do.

The reason you listen to music in the first place is that you like to. It gives you pleasure, right? So it's logical to listen to music, and logical to listen to music in whatever way brings someone pleasure.
 

Brian Hall

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Just tried listening to an original pressing of Simon and Garfunkel's Bridge Over Troubled Water from 1970. Unfortunately it is badly scratched. That is probably my fault from when I was a kid.

Switched to a 1967 record The Mystic Moods Orchestra - More than Music. It is in perfect condition and does sound good. The thunder and rain effects were well recorded.

These are both from the collection I inherited from my father. I've listened to several. Only about 420 or so to go through.

Just switched to one from 1964. The Jonah Jones Quartet at the Embers. It is also in perfect condition and sounds like it is jazz.

I had forgotten about my dad listening to jazz. It brings back memories. Big time nostalgia.
 
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