Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Mart68]

I wouldn't say piss-poor, but OK. "looks like something special"... I really don't think it explains the rise in numbers. If it really looked special, people wouldn't stop buying it. 911 from the 70' never found itself in landfills in huge numbers.

Myself and the people I know only stopped buying vinyl because the stores stopped stocking it and the record companies stopped issuing new releases on vinyl.

I really resented having to buy a CD player but I had no option if I wanted to carry on buying new releases. It was only much later that it began to dawn on me that the sound quality was actually better on CD.

But by 1992 the move to CD was not a matter of choice for the enthusiast. It was that or nothing.

Now we are in post-physical format world, but you ae young and have the desire for a physical format, which looks more impressive as a physical format? Obviously the vinyl LP with that 12'' artwork cover.

 

[JP]

Watch out, he's going to block you, you horrible hater!

I've no idea how those dozens of 'tables, arms, cartridges, or nearly a thousand records wound up here. Must've been that night the aliens snagged me!

 

[paddycrow]

I continue to enjoy both formats, although I almost never listen to a CD. I rip them to digital file and use Audirvana to render them.

I take exception to someone saying one format sounds better. You may prefer it, but that doesn't make it better. Better to you, yes. Not to everyone.

I jokingly say that the resurgence of vinyl is proof that some people just like a little noise and harmonic distortion.

 

[Mart68]

Don't confuse "sound quality" with measurements.

I probably bought my first record about 50 years ago. I still don't know why I enjoy listening to them more and prefer the sound quality, but I do. There are many of us about. If you ever suggested to us lot that digital is better because it measures better, please give advance notice as I'd likely fall over laughing and injure myself.

I don't know why it is and I don't really care for explanations. It's a bit like the artist Magritte, if you need an explanation, you've already missed the point.

No point having that argument with someone who duplicated most of his record collection with CD....

My point was that sound quality as we argue about it means nothing to most of the younger generation. They are not buying vinyl because they think it sounds better. It's just not a consideration for them. Obviously if it sounded terrible that might put them off but of course it doesn't.

 

[Leporello]

For what it's worth, I also want to understand my preference for vinyl - WHY does vinyl sound better to me than digital, particularly when digital is supposed to be perfect.

This is an archetypal pseudo-problem often favoured by vinylphiles. It is based on the assumption that a technically better (i.e. more accurate) sound must by necessity be also subjectively more pleasing. When it always is not, we are supposed to believe that this is an unsolved scientific mystery which challenges our understanding of digital audio. Not really.

 

[JP]

This, I agree with. For me, digital has the *potential*, but the current implementation is flawed; mainly in the delivery and the reconstruction, but also in the original quantisation (particularly with 44.1). All areas which can impact final sound quality. Flawed enough that I prefer vinyl, with all it's limitations as my playback medium of choice. Digital will get there one day and this conversation will end.

And just to clarify; I'm primarily talking about all-analogue vinyl. Digitally mastered vinyl is much less interesting.

This is audioscience, is it not? The flaws with digital sampling/reconstruction are well understood. So let's not play games, and recognise that in attacking me you are trying to move the goalposts away from the topic of conversation which is WHY is there a renaissance in vinyl, not WHY digital is better than vinyl. I've given my reasons. Engage, or troll, up to you.

For what it's worth, I also want to understand my preference for vinyl - WHY does vinyl sound better to me than digital, particularly when digital is supposed to be perfect. Why am I part of the so-called vinyl renaissance after twenty years of digital audio. This is something that continues to interest and confound me.

Indeed. I’m open to all these being contributing possibilities. But I’m also open to the idea that vinyl actually sounds better in my system. That’s currently my experience. I’ve nothing to lose here - whether vinyl or digital is the better medium, I’m going to listen to what sounds better. So, rather than try to dismiss my own subjective experience as deluded, I’m going to embrace it and enjoy it, while it lasts. In the meantime I continue to push both the analogue and digital sides of my HiFi to further improve things. Should I get to the point where my digital setup outperforms my vinyl, I’d be more than happy to drop vinyl (again!). Until then, may the renaissance live on.

Because you are mischaracterising what I said, and so why would I?

Or rather my response was prior to your shift of stance from 'digital is flawed, and flawed enough that I prefer vinyl and all its limitations instead' to 'perhaps I just prefer vinyl and I don't know why'. All fine and good, but regardless that doesn't make my response to the sentiment of your first two posts a mischaracterization. The words are ^ right there.

So what are these flaws in digital, and how is it that they are audibly 'worse' than the flaws and limitations of vinyl?

 

[danadam]

There is a regular comment outside of the ASR walls that ASR is all about equipment whereas for most audio users it's primarily about music.

That second part made me lough The saying "Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to music. Audiophiles use your music to listen to their equipment." was coined long before ASR was founded.

 

[SIY]

I've no idea how those dozens of 'tables, arms, cartridges, or nearly a thousand records wound up here. Must've been that night the aliens snagged me!

Show me on the doll where the Greys probed you.

 

[killdozzer]

Myself and the people I know only stopped buying vinyl because the stores stopped stocking it and the record companies stopped issuing new releases on vinyl.

I really resented having to buy a CD player but I had no option if I wanted to carry on buying new releases. It was only much later that it began to dawn on me that the sound quality was actually better on CD.

But by 1992 the move to CD was not a matter of choice for the enthusiast. It was that or nothing.

Now we are in post-physical format world, but you ae young and have the desire for a physical format, which looks more impressive as a physical format? Obviously the vinyl LP with that 12'' artwork cover.

Some good thoughts. I don't agree record is obviously preferable. I chalk that up to preference.

 

[billyjoebob]

Astrology has been going on for centuries, maybe millennia. Homeopathy for 150 years. Bullshit doesn't have an expiration date.

There IS something more to this, and it HAS been explained with real experimental support. It's interesting and a bit distressing to me that no-one has engaged the Uwins experiments I linked earlier.

So in your eyes vinyl is akin to astrology??
Ok then, bullshit does not have an expiration date.

 

[rDin]

Or rather my response was prior to your shift of stance from 'digital is flawed, and flawed enough that I prefer vinyl and all its limitations instead' to 'perhaps I just prefer vinyl and I don't know why'. All fine and good, but regardless that doesn't make my response to the sentiment of your first two posts a mischaracterization. The words are ^ right there.

So what are these flaws in digital, and how is it that they are audibly 'worse' than the flaws and limitations of vinyl?

You seem determined to score some petty point here. So, congrats, you win. Blocked.

To restate my actual position:

I prefer vinyl because of the sound quality.
I am somewhat confounded by this, as I would expect digital to be superior.
I am aware that digital has well known issues such as jitter/reconstruction/power noise issues and am speculating these might be the reason it sounds worse in my system. But I don't know.

 

[killdozzer]

But people... on and on and on you go about yourselves. Are we really not able to have a decent record discussion? As soon as something comes even close to records, it's all "hey, don't you judge my choices" or "well for me and my ears and for me subjectively and personally..." or "when I come and take that record and than I sit and the sleeve and the cracks and 1/2 an album in one go..." But what do you think is the reason it's growing in sales?
We're talking about new buyers and come-backs. Not regulars unless you increased LP buying. Those coming back are easy. A lot of posers as everywhere, some unfortunate experiences with digital and these will be quickest to go back to digital as soon as they give it a second chance, a small number of those who prefer skewed and finally those who just use all mediums not thinking about superiority.

But first timers are more of a curiosity. Think about it, they don't have the ritual developed nor a clear picture of what it will be. They don't have the experience of comparing sound. They don't even buy serious systems like us old farts. They buy thrift store suit case tt with built-in speaker and 'good' grade records. Or Monoprice equivalent tt in radio shack chain stores (a new 150$ Lenco). Just for the sake of it being records... So it's a mental image of themselves they have in their heads of being "the it crowd". When you just tell them what they need for a basic home set up, they ask me can they just buy a tt and headphones?

I kept talking to my nephew, he says what made it special is that it's not mainstream. Even more of those non-musical arguments moving away from "ubermensche" who are too mindful and care about music more than the rest of us unwashed masses to stoop so low as to digital.

What is interesting about it is that it hints at young moving away from it if indeed becomes widespread.

 

[SIY]

I am aware that digital has well known issues such as jitter/reconstruction/power noise issues and am speculating these might be the reason it sounds worse in my system. But I don't know.

See, @JP? I was right!

In any case, if you want to actually know rather than live in mystery, the answers are well known. You just may not like them.

 

[killdozzer]

But I don't know.

You got one right.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

I am aware that digital has well known issues such as jitter/reconstruction/power noise issues and am speculating these might be the reason it sounds worse in my system. But I don't know.

Nope.

What is happening is that you hear imperfections in the master more clearly. That can and will degrade any enjoyment. I had that happen with A LOT of music when I switched to highly resolving headphones. On some tracks it was so bad, that I thought they were defective. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss and more forgiving gear can actually sound more pleasing to the ear.

The digital artifacts you describe are way WAY beyond the range of human perception, unless you use really crappy gear. So that ain't it.

 

[killdozzer]

Astrology has been going on for centuries, maybe millennia. Homeopathy for 150 years. Bullshit doesn't have an expiration date.

There IS something more to this, and it HAS been explained with real experimental support. It's interesting and a bit distressing to me that no-one has engaged the Uwins experiments I linked earlier.

I think 15y is an overstatement. It was barely an exclusive club in 2005/2006. It's last few years that there's this "records over cds in sales" talk.

 

[threni]

You seem determined to score some petty point here. So, congrats, you win. Blocked.

To restate my actual position:

I prefer vinyl because of the sound quality.
I am somewhat confounded by this, as I would expect digital to be superior.
I am aware that digital has well known issues such as jitter/reconstruction/power noise issues and am speculating these might be the reason it sounds worse in my system. But I don't know.

"digital has well known issues..." well, no. Those concepts need to be taken into account in a digital solution but they've been solved. It's like saying you prefer raw food because there are known issues with cooking food such as burning it. If your oven is ok, and you cook the food for the right amount of time you'll never burn it. A perfect meal every time. Every medium, and every technology, has its own unique challenges. Presumably this is why you didn't mention metrics vinyl is demonstrably inferior at, such as dynamic range, distortion, surface noise and so on. If you don't mind those problems - and describe that as having better "sound quality" than CD because of jitter or whatever - then vinyl is for you. But using any of the kit Amir reviews as being performant, and if your home system is set up right, you're just not going to suffer from jitter, noise etc. I suspect people who prefer vinyl like the sound signature the medium imposes on the recording. They grew up with the larger format; I understand the larger form factor provides a handy flat surface which facilitates chemical augmentation of the contents; they've imprinted on the first performance of a piece they listened to; perhaps they have "glandular-tinged nostalgia" (to paraphrase Frank Zappa) for the times when they played a larger part in their lives. It's not for me, though. I just can't get over the surface noise; the inconvenience; the pops and scratches which seem to be unavoidable, and - last but not least - the terrible sound quality.

 

[killdozzer]

I suspect people who prefer vinyl like the sound signature the medium imposes on the recording.

I still wonder about this. How come they don't miss it in live shows?

 

[Cote Dazur]

Probably not available, but having access to some kind of demographic report on who buys lp’s and in what proportions, could help us better understand what is really happening. Also knowing if records are majorly bought by long time vinyl user or new comers would be insightful

 

[threni]

Probably not available, but having access to some kind of demographic report on who buys lp’s and in what proportions, could help us better understand what is really happening. Also knowing if records are majorly bought by long time vinyl user or new comers would be insightful

What are the actual figures? Vinyl sales overtaking CD sales at CDs peak would have been extraordinary, but isn't it rather that nearly everyone's streaming or downloading content these days instead of buying CDs, leaving us with a relatively small number of slightly older people who always bought vinyl, plus a motley collection of hipsters/millennials/cash-pressed students etc scouring second-hand shops, ebay and the like who are picking up on it?