Buchardt S400 Speaker Review

[tecnogadget]

Is it just me, or has Buchardt taken away from its webpage any kind of measurements/tech related info about S400 MKII ?

 

[Daverz]

Is it just me, or has Buchardt taken away from its webpage any kind of measurements/tech related info about S400 MKII ?

I don't remember seeing any. Did they ever put up a spin of the Mk II?

 

[Chromatischism]

They have not.

 

[ezra_s]

That's probably because you never auditioned them.

I have so many times and yes, I can imagine there are many good alternatives to them for lower prices.

Or maybe my pair's cross-over has been designed to focus on the lower frequencies very well, making the high bass areas around 100hz as if they don't exist and turning mids and highs to something grating. I sometimes think I hate that waveguide with all my might.

 

[Chromatischism]

I have so many times and yes, I can imagine there are many good alternatives to them for lower prices.

Or maybe my pair's cross-over has been designed to focus on the lower frequencies very well, making the high bass areas around 100hz as if they don't exist and turning mids and highs to something grating. I sometimes think I hate that waveguide with all my might.

The S400? Now there's something I've never read about them. The S400 MKI is one of the easiest speakers to listen to because the highs are neutral and extended (detailed) and not exaggerated. And the dip in the power response at 2 kHz helps with that as well. These are speakers you keep turning up louder rather than turning down because there's no ear fatigue.

 

[ezra_s]

The S400? Now there's something I've never read about them. The S400 MKI is one of the easiest speakers to listen to because the highs are neutral and extended (detailed) and not exaggerated. And the dip in the power response at 2 kHz helps with that as well. These are speakers you keep turning up louder rather than turning down because there's no ear fatigue.

My last experience in a larger room with no treatment, maybe it is that, I don't know, or maybe my pair is faulty. The thing I find with them is I am never quite satisfied and feel the need to tweak something.

 

[Chromatischism]

Huh. Makes me wonder what could be done with the setup to improve things. I remember not being happy when I had them too close to walls. They really do sound better out from the walls and aimed behind you even if you end up with SBIR in the bass region.

 

[ezra_s]

Huh. Makes me wonder what could be done with the setup to improve things. I remember not being happy when I had them too close to walls. They really do sound better out from the walls and aimed behind you even if you end up with SBIR in the bass region.

I always appreciate tips like this, will try next an see.

 

[Novak]

Sorry if it has already been answered, is there any difference between signature edition and MkI or MkII? In terms of measurement or sound?

 

[RMW_NJ]

Sorry if it has already been answered, is there any difference between signature edition and MkI or MkII? In terms of measurement or sound?

The MKI is crossed at 2.6Hz, SE is crossed at 2.0Hz, and MKII is crossed at 1.8Hz and has a different woofer. The SE and MKI measure slightly different, I believe. I don’t believe Klippel measurements have been published for MKII yet, but those who have heard them state they sound fairly different than the originals. I believe there are a few members that have owned both.

 

[Vacceo]

There seems to be a very controversial review from Audio Excellence Canada about these speakers.

Just for the fun of it, it'd nice to read your impressions about the topic and the reviewer.

 

[Chromatischism]

There seems to be a very controversial review from Audio Excellence Canada about these speakers.

Just for the fun of it, it'd nice to read your impressions about the topic and the reviewer.

Could be a defective speaker.

 

[Mark_A]

Could be a defective speaker.

The guys at Audio Excellence said that are certain it is not defective. But keep in mind that they typically sell speakers in the $10,000 and up range (way up), so they have higher standards. They took the speakers in trade, which is why they owned them.

2-way speakers like the Buchardt can be tricky, especially when the are designed for excellent bass response. Trying to get a single woofer/midrange to have excellent bass, while playing mid-range notes at the same time on the same driver, doesn't always work well, depending on the music one is listening two.

 

[Chromatischism]

The guys at Audio Excellence said that are certain it is not defective. But keep in mind that they typically sell speakers in the $10,000 and up range (way up), so they have higher standards. They took the speakers in trade, which is why they owned them.

Maybe they are not used to neutral speakers that don't exaggerate anything.

2-way speakers like the Buchardt can be tricky, especially when the are designed for excellent bass response. Trying to get a single woofer/midrange to have excellent bass, while playing mid-range notes at the same time on the same driver, doesn't always work well, depending on the music one is listening two.

I own both the MKI and MKII and the II especially is very neutral, clear, and enjoyable. Measurements are flat and extended. Directivity is smooth and controlled. There is better, but diminishing returns are kicking in hard and the ascent to better sound is steep.

So many of the comments state that the reviewer's observations don't make sense. There is no "missing midrange", and my imaging is dead center, not below the speakers or near the ground as one of the reviewers noted. Just bizarre comments.

Honestly it sounds like their preferences are for a more zippy sound and the S400 and other speakers designed around good spinorama measurements are not to their liking.

They are going to sound similar to the A500 and those did very well at Erin's Audio Corner. One guy, but one very thorough guy who I trust.

 

[Vacceo]

I have these dudes on a mountain of salt as the affirmed that a McIntosh AB amp is more refined than a D.

Amps are not cuts of beef.

 

[Mark_A]

Maybe they are not used to neutral speakers that don't exaggerate anything.

Adrian (the owner of AE) personally owns one of the very high-end Wilson Audio speakers, which is probably one of the most neutral speakers ever made. Lewis, who said there is no midrange in the Buchardt (obviously an exaggeration), personally owns the Dynaudio Special Forty 2-way bookshelf, which is reasonably neutral (and also coincidently Danish). Vilip has a variety of speakers in his home, so I am not sure what he normally prefers. Vilip probably doesn't listen much at home, since he spends all day at work listening to every expensive speakers and demoing them to customers.

I think they were reacting more to the rave reviews by saying they didn't understand what the hoopla was about, rather than "totally" bashing it. I am not sure if they reviewed the MKII, which has an improved midrange. They took the S400 in trade.

But IMO it is hard to get optimal midrange with a 2-way speaker, especially if it happens to have excellent bass response, as does the S400. This becomes more evident when a deep bass notes and upper mid-range notes are coming out of the woofer at the exact same time. Something has to give.

 

[Chromatischism]

Adrian (the owner of AE) personally owns one of the very high-end Wilson Audio speakers, which is probably one of the most neutral speakers ever made. Lewis, who said there is no midrange in the Buchardt (obviously an exaggeration), personally owns the Dynaudio Special Forty 2-way bookshelf, which is reasonably neutral (and also coincidently Danish).

The Special 40 has a bit of an upper midrange bump caused by the off-axis response:

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: Dynaudio Special Forty Loudspeakers

www.soundstagenetwork.com

There are several Wilson's on the list which have pretty wavy responses as well: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=18

I still believe the S400 line (especially the MKII) is "too neutral" for their acquired tastes, which are sounds they have associated with high-end gear.

 

[Chromatischism]

But IMO it is hard to get optimal midrange with a 2-way speaker, especially if it happens to have excellent bass response, as does the S400. This becomes more evident when a deep bass notes and upper mid-range notes are coming out of the woofer at the exact same time. Something has to give.

I'm not sure how you would test this. IMD? Apply a steep filter and see what it sounds like. Unfortunately you can't remove the psychoacoustic effect of our mind focusing in on the midrange when there is less bass.

 

[Mark_A]

The Special 40 has a bit of an upper midrange bump caused by the off-axis response:

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: Dynaudio Special Forty Loudspeakers

www.soundstagenetwork.com

There are several Wilson's on the list which have pretty wavy responses as well: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=18

I still believe the S400 line (especially the MKII) is "too neutral" for their acquired tastes, which are sounds they have associated with high-end gear.

I completely disagree about the high-end Wilson's like Adrian owns. I forgot the exact model he owns personally, but it is one of the very expensive one's like the Alexx-V. This speaker is considered by almost everyone to be brutally honest and revealing, especially if set up correctly (each driver can be individually adjusted in terms of angle and forward/backward position). Obviously, he acquired it at dealer cost (or maybe even less), but we are talking about a $135,000–$151,000/pair MSRP speaker system.

Wilson Audio | Alexx V

Accuracy of speakers in a lab test is not the only thing that matters. As I mentioned, if a single driver is called upon to produce a 60 Hz tone and a 1500 Hz tone at the exact same time, that is not captured in a lab measurement where each tone is measured individually at one particular frequency at a time. This can be a problem for a 2-way speaker system, especially if the designer tries to optimize the bass response. Also, even if the frequency response in the lab is flat in terms of decibel level, that doesn't mean that distortion is the same when reproducing both tones at the same time, versus measuring distortion at each frequency individually for distortion in a lab test.

I don't know why people are so upset about the Audio Excellence review of the Buchardt S400. I happen to own the PSB Synchrony 2 floor-standing speakers that I purchased in 2009. PSB is based in Ontario Canada, the same location where Audio Excellence is located. I know that Audio Excellence owner Adrian Low is fairly loyal to Canadian products, so I assume he is not fan of PSB speakers. But that doesn't bother me at all, and I am quite happy with my PSB speakers. But I continue to view his YouTube channel and reviews.

 

[Mark_A]

I'm not sure how you would test this. IMD? Apply a steep filter and see what it sounds like. Unfortunately you can't remove the psychoacoustic effect of our mind focusing in on the midrange when there is less bass.

Here is an Audio Science YouTube video (the link starts the video in the middle at the appropriate section) of the GR Research LGK 2.0 listening tests of certain music (with both bass and mid-range female voice playing at the same time) where there is massive distortion of the midrange. Obviously, the Buchardt S400 is not anywhere near as bad, but this is an example where listening tests can show problems that are not typically measured in the lab:

Again, it is acknowledged by almost everyone that the S400 has much better than average bass response (for a bookshelf speaker) in terms of frequency response and low distortion, but "maybe" this creates some trade-offs in terms of midrange in certain kind of music when both deep bass and higher midrange are be produced at the same time and expected to be reproduced by the single woofer (tweeter is operating above the mid-range). Also, the Audio Excellence reviewers are probably all over 50 years of age (maybe closer to 60 or above), so their ability to hear the deep bass notes are restricted, but they clearly hear the mid-range (or any absence of mid-range).