Buchardt S400 Speaker Review

[Jon AA]

Very easy the crown is not power rated with both channels driven.

Very easy?

I hate to be that one but the crown is a pa amp.

Yes, I'm quite aware of what it is. I own one.

We all need to get past the idea that power equals volume.

I'm not sure who it is here that you think isn't already "past that idea."

I'm simply saying, if you are "very easily" clipping an XLS (even the smallest one) with a pair of bookshelves rated to a suggested max of 200w, maybe you should be less focused on amps and buy some bigger speakers instead.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

Break-in seems to keep coming up. This is what SB - the manufacturer of the driver has to say about break-in.

tl;dr - ten minutes at close to full power. Changes the resonant frequency 10-15%. No further magic.

Prior to measuring T/S parameters, the drive unit should be broken in – for two reasons. If the suspension of the drive unit is not broken in, its compliance will slightly increase during the measurement, thus affecting/distorting the results. Furthermore, eventually the drive unit will end up being broken in (it actually does not take that long), which is why it is recommended to use T/S parameters that apply for a broken-in drive unit when calculating box volumes and tuning frequencies. The free air resonance frequency typically drops about 10-15% during break-in, as the suspension compliance increases. This directly affects the Q-factors and the equivalent volume.

To break in a drive unit, you are going to need a sine wave or a noise generator with adjustable output voltage (the former is recommendable) and a power amplifier. Using a sine wave generator, adjust the frequency somewhere below the expected free air resonance frequency of the drive unit (typically about 80% of this value). Slowly turn up the voltage until the suspension reaches maximum displacement. Keep it below clipping level. Usually you can hear when the suspension goes into clipping mode - there will be some kind of mechanical noise. Adjust the voltage slightly below this level. During the process of breaking in the drive unit, it might be necessary to turn down the voltage a little to keep it from clipping, as the suspension softens. It needs to run for about ten minutes. Before measuring, let the drive unit cool to ambient temperature.

 

[Hattie]

Very easy?

Yes, I'm quite aware of what it is. I own one.


I'm not sure who it is here that you think isn't already "past that idea."

I'm simply saying, if you are "very easily" clipping an XLS (even the smallest one) with a pair of bookshelves rated to a suggested max of 200w, maybe you should be less focused on amps and buy some bigger speakers instead.

It's not a matter of easily clipping the crown but if you want full bass extension you need power. The power rating on the speaker is almost completely irrelevant in a lot of situations

 

[DDF]

tl;dr - ten minutes at close to full power. Changes the resonant frequency 10-15%. No further magic.

The spider varnish breaks up and you get a "one time" irreversible change in Cms.

Heating a driver up by playing it hard causes temporary changes that I think some people confuse with break in.

 

[richard12511]

It's not a matter of easily clipping the crown but if you want full bass extension you need power. The power rating on the speaker is almost completely irrelevant in a lot of situations

Sure, but the Crown provides that power.

 

[LTig]

You answered your own question, the amp clipped. The adcom has clipping indicators I know it clipped. That's why I said you need a large amp speakers only ask for a few watts at any given time, when they do need a large rush of power the amp needs to provide it.

If the amp clips you can't blaim bad SQ to the speaker.

 

[Hattie]

It's not a matter of easily clipping the crown but if you want full bass extension you need power. The power rating on the speaker is almost completely irrelevant in a lot of situations

I'm not

Sure, but the Crown provides that power.[/QUO

If the amp clips you can't blaim bad SQ to the speaker.

I agree that's what I'm saying

Sure, but the Crown provides that power.

Or lack of power

 

[Head_Unit]

...This is what SB - the manufacturer of the driver has to say about break-in...tl;dr - ten minutes at close to full power. Changes the resonant frequency 10-15%. No further magic...

Finally some believable sensible-ness (what is "tl;dr"??). I've posted elsewhere doing a power test for Ford, dozens of units at full power pink noise for I believe 280 hours. Cones slamming back and forth to their suspension stops the whole time. I had to work noon to ten, 4 days a week, go home watch late night TV, get up at the crack of 10:30 and "oh sh!t" dive into the shower and zoom up the freeway, repeat, go out Thursday night...and Friday Saturday and (bonus!) Sunday. Ahem. Back to the test, we had to keep pulling off units, cooling, testing frequency response and parameters. Fs kept dropping continuously-but not by much. Little by little by little. The frequency response, barely affected, since the magnetics weren't affected nor the mass, and compliance is just one response factor.

Therefore when anyone is posting stuff need a bazillion hours to break in (especially electronics!) I call it RP=Return Prevention, i.e. the customers ears will get used to it. It's pretty amazing how wildly and aggressively defensive some people will become defending break-in if you say that-somehow they cannot stand the idea that it is psychoacoustic and not physical. Back to speakers, I did see one data set somewhere on the internet showing a significant resonance drop; to me that's not a well designed driver.

Back to the thread, sorry, a super stiff thick rubber surround, yeah, some break in. 100 hours? I was about to say nonsense...but conflating my test story and SB's ten minutes at close to full power let me contradict myself and think aloud that maybe 100 hours of music listening is what it takes to replicate that. Except for the "maybe music listening at normal levels just never exercises the surround much at all" and except for the "response not changing much due to compliance changes" PLUS, that's the compliance of just the speaker. Once you put it in a box, the box adds its own invariant compliance, reducing the effect of woofer compliance changes...

 

[VintageFlanker]

No offense, but @Hattie, would you please pay more attention about your posts?

I understand you're new here, but there's a preview button you should use more often before posting.... Thanks.

 

[Hattie]

No offense, but @Hattie, would you please pay more attention about your posts?

I understand you're new here, but there's a preview button you should use more often before posting.... Thanks.

Will do thanks for letting me know.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Will do thanks for letting me know.

Thx. What were the Arias you used long term?

 

[Hattie]

No offense, but @Hattie, would you please pay more attention about your posts?

I understand you're new here, but there's a preview button you should use more often before posting.... Thanks.

Thx. What were the Arias you used long term?

The 936

 

[Thomas savage]

Sorry new here

Iv merged some of them , it's ok I not new here and iv never got round to the multi quote thing lol

 

[DDF]

Heating a driver up by playing it hard causes temporary changes that I think some people confuse with break in.

It might be helpful to show this with a (somewhat exaggerated) example. As the voice coil heats up and the resistance changes, the box alignment changes. Its easy to be fooled into a speaker "opening up and hitting its stride" when played hard for some time and the bass peaking growing as it heats. https://sites.google.com/site/amateuraudio/theory/compression

The speaker system as a whole would also start to add some smiley face EQ as it heats since the tweeter will stay at its sensitivity while the woofer broadband sensitivity decreases due to the added resistance in its coil. Easy to innocently mistake this for "breaking in" if one's not aware of the physical processes at play.

 

[richard12511]

Finally some believable sensible-ness (what is "tl;dr"??). I've posted elsewhere doing a power test for Ford, dozens of units at full power pink noise for I believe 280 hours. Cones slamming back and forth to their suspension stops the whole time. I had to work noon to ten, 4 days a week, go home watch late night TV, get up at the crack of 10:30 and "oh sh!t" dive into the shower and zoom up the freeway, repeat, go out Thursday night...and Friday Saturday and (bonus!) Sunday. Ahem. Back to the test, we had to keep pulling off units, cooling, testing frequency response and parameters. Fs kept dropping continuously-but not by much. Little by little by little. The frequency response, barely affected, since the magnetics weren't affected nor the mass, and compliance is just one response factor.

Therefore when anyone is posting stuff need a bazillion hours to break in (especially electronics!) I call it RP=Return Prevention, i.e. the customers ears will get used to it. It's pretty amazing how wildly and aggressively defensive some people will become defending break-in if you say that-somehow they cannot stand the idea that it is psychoacoustic and not physical. Back to speakers, I did see one data set somewhere on the internet showing a significant resonance drop; to me that's not a well designed driver.

Back to the thread, sorry, a super stiff thick rubber surround, yeah, some break in. 100 hours? I was about to say nonsense...but conflating my test story and SB's ten minutes at close to full power let me contradict myself and think aloud that maybe 100 hours of music listening is what it takes to replicate that. Except for the "maybe music listening at normal levels just never exercises the surround much at all" and except for the "response not changing much due to compliance changes" PLUS, that's the compliance of just the speaker. Once you put it in a box, the box adds its own invariant compliance, reducing the effect of woofer compliance changes...

Mads confirmed that these speakers were fully broken in before being sent to ASR for review.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Mads confirmed that these speakers were fully broken in before being sent to ASR for review.

On the other hand: that would have been a good factor to measure, tho... : Before and after the burn-in period recommended by Buchardt.

Will still kind of a a myth to me, untill some measurements might prove the opposite.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

(what is "tl;dr"??).

Something of a more recent internet thing. tl;dr == to long; didn't read So a quick summary for those too lazy to read the full text.

 

[Hattie]

Mads confirmed that these speakers were fully broken in before being sent to ASR for review.

I dont get your point, but you seem happy with an answer you have made up based on nothing but opinion.
Congratulations you have finally realized there is more to audio than just numbers. Hence vanilla versus chocolate ice cream by the numbers chocolate seems better based on the ingredients and the interaction with the human body. I still hate chocolate and prefer vanilla.

 

[amirm]

I dont get your point, but you seem happy with an answer you have made up based on nothing but opinion.

What? He is telling what the company representative is saying about the sample he sent me. What is made up about it?

Congratulations you have finally realized there is more to audio than just numbers.

I hope we can congratulate you one day after you understand decades of speaker research to characterize what we like in speaker sound.

 

[Hattie]

What? He is telling what the company representative is saying about the sample he sent me. What is made up about it?


I hope we can congratulate you one day after you understand decades of speaker research to characterize what we like in speaker sound.

You are correct and what decades of research found is that most people do not prefer a truly flat responce, mostly because we dont have a calibration tool for the human ear which is not linear in terms of how it interprets frequencies. I like this forum you guys do a great job, but why not take in to account some other factors such as people like myself who has had years of experience. In terms of the measurements you took even mads stated it was odd looking. I dont have the equipment you have but I have through rew and dirac changes from when I first set them up to now. There are very few endgame speakers and the ones that are probably could not be afforded by 89 percent of the people on this forum. I agree Buchardts aren't endgame but they are a great speaker for the price for people that enjoy listening to music they love for long periods of time. I have parapalegia so ihave plenty of time. I love the Kef R3 as well and I can budget about 5k a year to my hobby. The kef eventually gets tiring in the treble responce and after years of analyzing sound i just want to enjoy it. The Buchardts allow that and for all practical purposes are full range. I will say I still miss my Vienna Acoustics Beethoven's. That's my 89cents and again no disrespect meant in any way.