Buchardt S400 Speaker Review

[amirm]

OK, while starting some more seedlings, I thought I scan the second S400 sample. My wife was running the washer next door so noisier environment than the first sample.

Here is the on-axis response:

I don't know how you can get closer than this! Repeatability of the Klippel NFS system is excellent as is sample to sample consistency in what I was sent from Buchardt. Here is the full spinorama:

 

[Tks]

this is whats interesting.

Should be as normal as anyone who considers themselves to have one aspect in their life that deviates from the preferences of the average person (think of kinks perhaps, or folks who like something like cars that usually have awful speed characteristics, but perhaps enjoys them for their looks or handling). I doubt your preferences are TOTALLY against every single measurement metric (like if someone let you listen to a speaker that had an upside-down V shaped Frequency Response, I doubt you would like that for general listening, I actually do like this sometimes tbh, and will cut bass/treble frequencies with EQ, and make the audio sound as if it's coming through an old telephone).

Nothing weird there. Unless you were trying to say, you actually enjoy speakers that somehow violate every single measurement metric's ideal performance aspiration. If that's the case, then idk what to really say >_<

 

[Voo]

If I remember correctly, Dr. Toole had bolted some salon 2's to his wall upside down and mentioned best sound to be all immersive multichannel mixes. This concept just throws stereo mixes down into basement. However, I really enjoy 2 channel. So all reviews are looked at with idea of buying new speakers. I already own 5 pairs...so its really got to be amazing. I am not a bookshelf buyer, so just interested in the overall.

 

[napilopez]

OK, while starting some more seedlings, I thought I scan the second S400 sample. My wife was running the washer next door so noisier environment than the first sample.

Here is the on-axis response:

View attachment 60457

I don't know how you can get closer than this! Repeatability of the Klippel NFS system is excellent as is sample to sample consistency in what I was sent from Buchardt. Here is the full spinorama:

View attachment 60458

Thanks for the retest! Good to see the sample-to-sample consistency. Would be interesting to see if what things look like if Buchardt measures one of the samples when they get it back, but good stuff. Resonance blip aside, I think the difference in the bass is perhaps most interesting, as accurate low bass seems to be one of the machines main selling points. Not that it should matter much to most of us here who should be EQing the bass anyway =]

 

[Mads Buchardt]

That's awesome! My apologies for reading too much into it as well. Forums aren't great for expressing fully oneself, that and cross cultural context can distort meanings. Hence I thought it would be better to ask and understand better

To clarify too, I am a happy owner of a pair of the S400. They aren't perfect by any means (as Amir has shown here), but they fit exactly the use case I needed for that specific room (big sound, good upper bass). Funnily, they were competing against the Revel M16 that Amir likes so much. I did prefer the Revel price to performance, but your speakers won because of my more niche use case... that, and the Revel seller didn't let me take a home pair to test over a month! Heh.

If I've got itchy diy fingers and wanted to improve the cabinet resonance, would it make sense for me to open up the speakers and shove a dowel in there?

Oh yeah not having English as the first language can result in misunderstandings, would not be the first time that happened haha

We do stripe to be as good as possible when it comes to price / performance ratio, and if that's the most important factor, then our s300 is the winner, but it's also a much larger speaker which is a deal breaker for many. Now I get the feeling that the majority of the users in here are from the US correct? This was sadly the only country that got hit with the recent price changes in a negative way. As you all know, products around the world can have completely different prices based on where you live. We wanted to change that to allow customers all over the world to buy our speakers, without getting hit by this huge tax/duty bill when importing them. This means that we cover all import cost for our customers now, a big deal for people outside the US. Of course competing on price / performance ratio on US prices then gets a little harder sadly, especially against the US based brands such as Revel. But again I see the closer competitor to the s400 being Revel m106 as they actually have the same woofer. But I think the m106 is also a great example of how good our price / performance ratio is when you look at the individual parts cost. I think it's important that people compare our prices to the competitors, when looking at parts used, service provided and so on. One question to you all : would a 100% price / performance focused speaker be something you think we would sell more of?

 

[AudioJester]

That curve is so flat, reminds me of the original Magico S5, the only difference being the S5 went lower in the bass.
Looks like a similar sound signature?

At lower volumes I actually prefer a flatter fesponse with bass boost.

 

[Voo]

One question to you all : would a 100% price / performance focused speaker be something you think we would sell more of?

with this pandemic, premium products gonna take a hit. just imo.

 

[napilopez]

Oh yeah not having English as the first language can result in misunderstandings, would not be the first time that happened haha

We do stripe to be as good as possible when it comes to price / performance ratio, and if that's the most important factor, then our s300 is the winner, but it's also a much larger speaker which is a deal breaker for many. Now I get the feeling that the majority of the users in here are from the US correct? This was sadly the only country that got hit with the recent price changes in a negative way. As you all know, products around the world can have completely different prices based on where you live. We wanted to change that to allow customers all over the world to buy our speakers, without getting hit by this huge tax/duty bill when importing them. This means that we cover all import cost for our customers now, a big deal for people outside the US. Of course competing on price / performance ratio on US prices then gets a little harder sadly, especially against the US based brands such as Revel. But again I see the closer competitor to the s400 being Revel m106 as they actually have the same woofer. But I think the m106 is also a great example of how good our price / performance ratio is when you look at the individual parts cost. I think it's important that people compare our prices to the competitors, when looking at parts used, service provided and so on. One question to you all : would a 100% price / performance focused speaker be something you think we would sell more of?

While I think most of us are in the US, this is one of the more multinational forums I've been on overall. I'm constantly surprised at home much speaker prices can vary by region - sometimes prices nearly double outside of their home region.

I appreciate the efforts to ship globally.

 

[Thomas savage]

While I think most of us are in the US, this is one of the more multinational forums I've been on overall. I'm constantly surprised at home much speaker prices can vary by region - sometimes prices nearly double outside of their home region.

I appreciate the efforts to ship globally.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/poll-where-are-you-guys-from.9924/

While there's not that many votes here it might serve as a indicator of where our contributing members are from relative to each other.

 

[Juhazi]

Good morning! I just read through the few last pages. So, the resonance origin is still open. My hunch says it most likely is acoustical interference between output from the woofer and resonator on the backside. Could be also side panel mechanical resonance. However it has high Q and small amplitude, so it shouldn't be heard with music. Tonality is just a matter of preference, and it depends on actual placement and room dimensions.

I would like to study the resonance more. Play slow manual sine sweep across resonance and listen to it in nearfiel and use hands to feel if there is resonance in the cabinet. Measurements are difficullt to analyze...

Difference in Klippel NFS measurement at factory and Amir are interesting too. My guess is that mic distance difference and on-axis definition are causing this.

Almost every 2-way reflex speaker has upper midrange problems with resonances/leaks from the port/radiator. Sealed box is the way to go with midrange! Dipoles are totally another story.

 

[VintageFlanker]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/poll-where-are-you-guys-from.9924/

While there's not that many votes here it might serve as a indicator of where our contributing members are from relative to each other.

Thanks Thomas. Was going to link my poll as well. Yes, if most visitors are from US, according to @amirm, it seems like most active members are... from everywhere, really.

 

[ace_xp2]

One question to you all : would a 100% price / performance focused speaker be something you think we would sell more of?

I think that despite the occasional individual posting ideals to the contrary, the truth is seen in the view counts for the DACs here. Notwithstanding the bloodbaths for particularly expensive and poorly measuring ones, cost to performance rules the roost.
Having it built somewhere other then china will sell some, having it built there for less will sell more.
Hell a good case (as in for the components) might garner at least some defence of costs, but no case and fantastic performance will lead to massive interest.
Ultimately the truth is no matter what individuals espouse, the pocket rules the largest majority of potential buyers. It's a Wal Mart world!

 

[Daverz]

Just one more comment on the subjective part of the reviews: I think @amirm should consider holding off on posting subjective comments for a few days after posting measurements. Obviously many readers take these subjective comments way more seriously than might have been intended. With the headphone amp reviews, the subjective part was never more than a description of how loud and cleanly the amp could play with high and low impedance 'phones. But now I suspect that a lot of readers skim the measurements to get to the subjective part which then gets freighted with a lot more significance, "Well, OK, but how do they really sound?" Exactly the kind of thing I think ASR was trying to get away from in the first place.

 

[Thomas savage]

I think that despite the occasional individual posting ideals to the contrary, the truth is seen in the view counts for the DACs here. Notwithstanding the bloodbaths for particularly expensive and poorly measuring ones, cost to performance rules the roost.
Having it built somewhere other then china will sell some, having it built there for less will sell more.
Hell a good case (as in for the components) might garner at least some defence of costs, but no case and fantastic performance will lead to massive interest.
Ultimately the truth is no matter what individuals espouse, the pocket rules the largest majority of potential buyers. It's a Wal Mart world!

There can be a inverted snobbery regarding price here , the thought of getting more for less seems to make some feel superior somehow and they base everything on that.

I guess you want a reward for looking through all this data , understanding it but some take it way too far imo .

Ultimately companies like Burchard need to make their customers feel special , it's a hard marketplace to be in so they need imo to focus on what makes them different from say Elac and the Andrew Jones offerings .

That will probably come down to marketing and selling a narrative that appeals to a certain customer base. A strict ' value ' no frills approach would undermine the feel of their brand imo .

For me I'm looking forward to the measurements of their new active DSP speaker , if that measures as well or better than say D&D 8c and is offered at 20% less end cost then things will get interesting .

Imo a lot relies on the mix of skillset they have in house and whether they can properly support a DSP type speaker software wise . If they can then they go from being a speaker manufacture to a technology company and its that transition and mix of skill sets that will separate them from others imo .

Once you achieve that , naturally there's more inherent value in the brand and you can charge more while still keeping the impression of good value .

As a aside , we do have a large and growing readership but I would not take our active members as being a target market to aspire to. They represent a very small niche in a larger market. It's good to keep the ratio of readers to active members in mind when participating in these discussions too imo.

Just my opinion, take with pinch of salt .

 

[fredoamigo]

Just one more comment on the subjective part of the reviews: I think @amirm should consider holding off on posting subjective comments for a few days after posting measurements. Obviously many readers take these subjective comments way more seriously than might have been intended. With the headphone amp reviews, the subjective part was never more than a description of how loud and cleanly the amp could play with high and low impedance 'phones. But now I suspect that a lot of readers skim the measurements to get to the subjective part which then gets freighted with a lot more significance, "Well, OK, but how do they really sound?" Exactly the kind of thing I think ASR was trying to get away from in the first place.

A more objective approach would be to consider a double-blind (harman) protocol with reference monitors.
This would not be an easy infrastructure to set up but would be feasible. I hope so one day!!

 

[Thomas savage]

A more objective approach would be to consider a double-blind (harman) protocol with reference monitors.
This would not be an easy infrastructure to set up but would be feasible. I hope so one day!!

@amirm needs to build a proper testing facility and stop messing about in his garage . He needs undergrads/ interns and at least 1 other guy who knows what he's doing .

Come on amirm , get it sorted out ... Where's your sense of commitment .

After watching' breaking bad ' I think a subterranean level might be worth considering, also iv ideas on how to fund all this.

 

[Daverz]

Oh yeah not having English as the first language can result in misunderstandings, would not be the first time that happened haha

We do stripe to be as good as possible when it comes to price / performance ratio, and if that's the most important factor, then our s300 is the winner, but it's also a much larger speaker which is a deal breaker for many. Now I get the feeling that the majority of the users in here are from the US correct? This was sadly the only country that got hit with the recent price changes in a negative way. ?

When I was looking for new speakers back in the summer, the price was still only a little over $1800, which made them a little cheaper than the Revel 106, the other contenders. The deciding factors were the 30-day trial with free shipping*, the inclusion of measurements on the Buchardt website, their good looks, small size and weight, and, to be honest, the excellent viral (sorry) marketing (YT reviews, Facebook page, etc).

* If I'd known how painful Fed Ex would make importing them into the US, though... I hope that's all worked out now.

 

[ace_xp2]

Let me be clear, I don't like it either. I've worked for companies that stood for quality, that worked on great products, did the best they could to maintain good relationships... Now I work for companies that are still operational.

I do see that there is a place for companies who focus more on the gestalt of it all as opposed to end results, but comparatively those companies charge a lot more and importantly say a lot less about what they're actually doing. As soon as you say precisely what you're doing, once someone is producing a decent copy of what you yourself claimed to do but cheaper, that someone will be making the sales going forward. I like this even less, but it plays out that way just the same.

 

[Daverz]

with this pandemic, premium products gonna take a hit. just imo.

Well, if we're giving tough-love advice: Buchardt should probably concentrate on a €250000 flagship speaker, because that's the only part of the market that will have any money after the pandemic and global economic meltdown. Clean, Scandanavian looks don't sell among that crowd, though, so think about hiring a goldsmith.

 

[Haint]

Oh yeah not having English as the first language can result in misunderstandings, would not be the first time that happened haha

We do stripe to be as good as possible when it comes to price / performance ratio, and if that's the most important factor, then our s300 is the winner, but it's also a much larger speaker which is a deal breaker for many. Now I get the feeling that the majority of the users in here are from the US correct? This was sadly the only country that got hit with the recent price changes in a negative way. As you all know, products around the world can have completely different prices based on where you live. We wanted to change that to allow customers all over the world to buy our speakers, without getting hit by this huge tax/duty bill when importing them. This means that we cover all import cost for our customers now, a big deal for people outside the US. Of course competing on price / performance ratio on US prices then gets a little harder sadly, especially against the US based brands such as Revel. But again I see the closer competitor to the s400 being Revel m106 as they actually have the same woofer. But I think the m106 is also a great example of how good our price / performance ratio is when you look at the individual parts cost. I think it's important that people compare our prices to the competitors, when looking at parts used, service provided and so on. One question to you all : would a 100% price / performance focused speaker be something you think we would sell more of?

In the US I would blindly guess 90-95% of bookshelf sales are in the $100-$600 price range. At $1500+ I'm pretty confident you're competing for single digit percentages. Matching or surpassing ELAC, KEF, and Harman on price : performance is easier said than done though.