Balanced VS Sing-ended DACs,

[kecstama]

Hello!

I'm a fellow newbie ""audiphile"".
My question here is:

I'm about to buy a new DACAMP

I have 2 opitons (both used):
Audio GD R2R 11
Audio GD HFB10.33

The R2R is a bit cheaper, but my problem here is that i can't decide which model would be better for me. The R2R Model uses a better DAC (DSD, DXD, higher bitrate/sampling rate support), but the HFB has balanced outs(And inputs!!!).
(On top of that, R2R uses a "resistor ladder" thingy, while the HFB model uses Delta-Sigma thingy)

I'll be using active monitors (Later!, next planned upgrade ). If i read things right XLR "must" be better than RCA connection, but i want to be sure. (This will be my first "higher-end" machinery, i dont wanna make a bad decision)

 

[amirm]

Where possible, get a DAC with XLR output especially for powered monitors. Ground loops can occur in those situations with RCA causing hum that is difficult if not impossible to get rid of.

As to your choice of DACs, try to find another brand/model from the ones we have tested. All the Audio-gd DACs that I have tested have performed poorly. You can get a balanced DAC from Grace Design/Drop for just US $150. Or SMSL SU-8.

 

[SDC]

18 years old. Newb "audiophile" who's first post is selection between two Audio GD product...

Anyway, not buying Audio GD will result in better performance than buying balanced Audio GD product. Seriously.

Every DSPed active monitors have negative feedback with delta sigma chips anyway.

 

[MediumRare]

Welcome, you've come to the right place. Do a search for dx7 pro or m500 in titles and read up. You've got plenty of amazing options better than what you were considering.

 

[Mnyb]

New kind of advice , given that most reasonable gear perform beyond human hearing. so it’s hard to get it really wrong unless your an audiophile. Others may get less value for money and less desirable features just randomly buying anything, but audiophiles runs the risk of getting awful stuff due to their problematic biases . ( example in this post R2R DAC )

So Just don’t buy : audio GD , TotalDAC ( total crap ) ps audio ( direct scream , brain cell ) ; append more stuff here

This is just for fun op is a troll anyway so......

 

[dmac6419]

Hello!

I'm a fellow newbie ""audiphile"".
My question here is:

I'm about to buy a new DACAMP

I have 2 opitons (both used):
Audio GD R2R 11
Audio GD HFB10.33

The R2R is a bit cheaper, but my problem here is that i can't decide which model would be better for me. The R2R Model uses a better DAC (DSD, DXD, higher bitrate/sampling rate support), but the HFB has balanced outs(And inputs!!!).
(On top of that, R2R uses a "resistor ladder" thingy, while the HFB model uses Delta-Sigma thingy)

I'll be using active monitors (Later!, next planned upgrade ). If i read things right XLR "must" be better than RCA connection, but i want to be sure. (This will be my first "higher-end" machinery, i dont wanna make a bad decision)

Save your money kid and get something else,you'll thank me later

 

[kecstama]

I'm kinda surprised now to be honest. On our "local" forum everyone was praising it (Even one of my fav. reviewers, Zeos). They look pretty well built inside. Frankly it's blackfriday so i have options for the SMSL M300/ SU8 from Aliexpress.

Thanks btw, i almost screwed myself up

Edit: I've just sold my Roland Mobile-UA, thats where i'm upgrading from

 

[Rollaven]

I'm kinda surprised now to be honest. On our "local" forum everyone was praising it (Even one of my fav. reviewers, Zeos). They look pretty well built inside. Frankly it's blackfriday so i have options for the SMSL M300/ SU8 from Aliexpress.

Thanks btw, i almost screwed myself up

Edit: I've just sold my Roland Mobile-UA, thats where i'm upgrading from

Don't take Zeos too serious although he's fun too watch but not really unbiased regarding reviews. Just have a look around on ASR about a proper DAC and you know more than enough.

 

[kecstama]

Don't take Zeos too serious although he's fun too watch but not really unbiased regarding reviews. Just have a look around on ASR about a proper DAC and you know more than enough.

I've choosen my last 2 headphones based on his reviews and i am really happy with them, they sound just as he described them.

But yeah, DACs are a different part of the world.

(He said cables doesn't matter (that mutch) is that a lie too? )

 

[Rollaven]

If you like how a cable looks and feels than ok, but definately no sound improvements what so ever.

don't spend too much on a dac/amp, that's something I learned thanks to ASR. A nice set of headphones has a bigger influence on sound than a silver balanced cable with golden xlr connection.

 

[JJB70]

Zeus is terrific fun if you treat his videos as entertainment but don't take his recommendations too seriously. Sometimes I agree with him but quite often I disagree.

 

[kecstama]

Im getting really confused now,

Somesay using XLR in short runs wont make any difference, somesay XLR will reduce the quality (in the same price range) since there are more components used at the same price point, somesay XLR will only make a difference in loudness.

So could someone help me out with a single Yes / No?
Question: Will XLR make a difference over RCA on a distance of 2-3 meters, paired with a Focal Alpha series monitor (Planned but not 100%)

I don't have a balanced Headphone, im not planning upgrading that in the future,

Thanks!

 

[Hipper]

I would take note of post 2. Amirm, who runs this site, knows his stuff.

The 'balance' in XLR cables and systems is associated with grounding of the signal. The 'balance' when talking about headphones is something completely different -(it's to do with apparent 'crosstalk' when using the standard headphone jack).

 

[somebodyelse]

Over short runs the main benefit of balanced interconnects is immunity from ground loop problems as Amirm already said, assuming manufacturers have followed standards. Many people get away with single ended interconnects, and don't see the benefit in balanced. Others aren't so lucky and drive themselves nuts trying to get rid of hum, or resort to dangerous solutions like disconnecting mains earth on some bits of equipment. The bigger separation of equipment that's common with powered monitors makes ground loop problems somewhat more likely.

Balanced outputs don't need to be significantly more expensive to manufacture - often an extra resistor per channel and a different connector will do the job. If you see a review where Amirm's complaining it doesn't reach 4V output that's probably what they're doing, and some will claim it isn't really balanced, but it's doing the important part.

If you want some learning materials have a look at Bill Whitlock's seminar on understanding and avoiding ground loops and Bruno Putzeys' The G Word paper.

 

[Killingbeans]

Somesay using XLR in short runs wont make any difference

True. Unless you have problems with ground loops, or just want them out of the picture (peace of mind).

somesay XLR will reduce the quality (in the same price range) since there are more components used at the same price point

Only if the price range is so stupidly low, that faulty soldering comes in play.

somesay XLR will only make a difference in loudness.

True for headphone outputs (not XLR, but balanced). It doesn't matter with line level signals.

So could someone help me out with a single Yes / No?

Yes. But don't spend a ton of money the cables. It won't make any difference.

Question: Will XLR make a difference over RCA on a distance of 2-3 meters, paired with a Focal Alpha series monitor (Planned but not 100%)

It depends. Again, XLR is mostly an insurance policy or a problem eliminator, not really an upgrade.

 

[Eirikur]

I have 2 options (both used):
Audio GD R2R 11
Audio GD HFB10.33

[...] I don't wanna make a bad decision

You're in luck: several Audio GD products have been measured here and all of them essentially crashed and burned

• Audio GD R8
• Audio GD NFB27.38 DAC and headphone amplifier
• Audio GD NFB28.28 DAC and Headphone Amp
• Audio GD R2R 11
• Audio GD NFB2 192kHz DAC
• Audio GD DAC19

My advise: look further and steer clear of this brand!

 

[Killingbeans]

They look pretty well built inside.

It's one of Audio GD's best party tricks. They use lots of fancy components and arrange them so it looks neat, but from an engineering point of view it's a mess.

 

[kecstama]

Okay, thank you guys for the detailed answers.

The only problem with the SU-8 is that its kinda expensive here since i'll have to pay VAT and fees if i order it from outside of Erope.
The M300 looks cool, but sadly theres no review, so im kinda worried about "what will i get".

 

[Killingbeans]

The specs for the M300 look fine. But it's a "pure" DAC with no volume control. Don't know if that could be a problem, or whether you have other plans for controlling the volume?

You can get it from Audiophonics: Here.

 

[Neddy]

Is there a DAC in your price range with both balanced and unbalanced outputs?
And remember, good DACs are fairly inexpensive now, so future upgrades do not have to involve huge investments down the road.

Balanced outputs force you to use compatible amps, and are not simple or cheap to convert to (unlike unbalanced DAC outputs to balanced amp inputs).

I've mostly converted to balanced interfaces - mostly b/c of ground loop issues in a fairly complex system - but also found out recently that by going with balanced sources you have to look very carefully at what amps you select to use.
Powered speakers are an advantage here - no choice of amps to worry about, and many have both inputs.

A small amp I purchased recently turns out to have a small circuit that converts balanced to unbalanced internally, which impacts it's SN and noise floor negatively (according to the mfgr tech) - so knowing how the amp is constructed comes into play as well!

Happy shopping!!