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Aussie Bushfires

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Wombat

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It is a shame that a previous thread was shut down due to ill-posted content.

The situation has become more horrendous since then.

Out of the carnage, nature reacts:





To those who can't empathise in these circumstances, "shut the fuck up". :mad::mad:
 
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Dave Zan

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...The situation has become more horrendous since then.

The really scary bit is that it's about to become even worse... and the summer isn't even half way...
The Canberra forecast for the next few days hits 42 C and windy.
The smoke has pushed the Air Quality Index to "Hazardous", often off the scale, for weeks now.
I wear a respirator if I need to leave the house.
2020 has come and finally the future is now, unfortunately it's a future from an apocalyptic sci-fi film.
The sky is yellow, no clouds but haze so thick the sun is dimmed, people walk around in protective masks and visibility like a "Jack the Ripper" remake.
It is advised to stay indoors so I just distract myself with Internet, hence the recent posts.
Where are you in Australia?
I hope it's far from the fires and all is well there.

It's bloody horrendous, I hope at least our members from down under...

Thanks, my problems are minor compared to those who have lost someone, or been left homeless.

Best wishes
David
 
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JJB70

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Wombat

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Wombat

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renaudrenaud

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Yeah... I was shocked by the corvette thread during in the same time this catastrophic bushfires.
It's, I hope not too late, really time to change.

All my sympathy to people suffering this difficult time.

An edit... I was talking about that with my son, 17 years old.

Some guys want the liberty to buy the car they want to buy. Their liberty is at the cost of human life. Ok. I take note.

I think this is a question of mental structure. It will take one or two generation. From "I dont't care you die at the moment I have the liberty to drive my car" to something different. If we can live, the humanity can live two generation more.
 
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Blumlein 88

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Yeah... I was shocked by the corvette thread during in the same time this catastrophic bushfires.
It's, I hope not too late, really time to change.

All my sympathy to people suffering this difficult time.

An edit... I was talking about that with my son, 17 years old.

Some guys want the liberty to buy the car they want to buy. Their liberty is at the cost of human life. Ok. I take note.

I think this is a question of mental structure. It will take one or two generation. From "I dont't care you die at the moment I have the liberty to drive my car" to something different. If we can live, the humanity can live two generation more.
I think the bit about the cars is over the top. Any current car people buy or don't isn't killing anyone or saving anyone. There is an aggregate effect to it all, but you couldn't by decree, today stop all use of certain cars. The total effect of that would be worse in other ways. Things are moving in a better direction, but unless you wish to force decisions for everyone people will make their own decisions for their own needs. There are costs and benefits to that. Very complex to see the perfect path.

There aren't any people I've seen saying I know my car will kill people and I don't care. That is a straw man. There are people buying and using cars you might think do that, and the buyers don't believe you.
 

daftcombo

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I think the bit about the cars is over the top. Any current car people buy or don't isn't killing anyone or saving anyone. There is an aggregate effect to it all, but you couldn't by decree, today stop all use of certain cars. The total effect of that would be worse in other ways. Things are moving in a better direction, but unless you wish to force decisions for everyone people will make their own decisions for their own needs. There are costs and benefits to that. Very complex to see the perfect path.

There aren't any people I've seen saying I know my car will kill people and I don't care. That is a straw man. There are people buying and using cars you might think do that, and the buyers don't believe you.
I don't think he meant that. Just that it is strange to think that at the same time, you have people running away for their life whereas on the other side of the planet, some other dream about new cars. That's how I interpreted it.

Edit: You are right, I misinterpreted because I forgot his last two sentences. I don't disagree with them thoough.
 

renaudrenaud

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Well, take it easy. I use bikes since 2011 and you cannot buy happiness but you can buy a bike wich is pretty close.

And my felling is because of cars people are crazy.


Because of cars around 500 000 persons are killed every year in Europe. That's not my point of view. This is the official number. Because of pollution.
https://www.lemonde.fr/pollution/ar...n=Lehuit&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter
https://ec.europa.eu/environment/archives/cafe/general/keydocs.htm
https://www.eea.europa.eu/
Etc...


Just, it is time to act. You cannot deny anymore.
 

SIY

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Well, take it easy. I use bikes since 2011 and you cannot buy happiness but you can buy a bike wich is pretty close.

I'm trying to imagine riding a bike here during the 6 months when it's 45 degrees and intense sun. :eek:
 

oivavoi

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Man, this is so horrible. I just --- don't have words. I have many friends from Australia, and some of them have lost their houses. One of the firefighters who died was a friend of a friend. These pictures are so unimaginably apocalyptic.

What makes it even more horrible to think about is that it ain't going to stop either, not in the short-term until there comes rain, and not in the long-term, since climate change is going to make it even worse in the decades to come, unless we really turn stuff around.

Part of me is angry. This is not a "natural disaster". But a larger part of me just grieves for Australia right now. Stay strong.
 

Thomas savage

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If we could keep the virtue signalling out of what is a tribute and respect thread I'd be most appreciative.

As we are all using toxic devices and all sorts of other infrastructure that's had a detrimental effect on the environment just by writing stuff online, plus all consume unnecessarily in our pursuit of audio not to mention the huge self indulgent waste of time we spend here writing about it ... Well please just leave the self righteous stuff at the door.

Back to thinking about those resilient Aussies, human and otherwise.
 

DonH56

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We've been through our own share of fires here (and have once or twice in recent years loaded up a couple of vehicles with what we could to evac), and as bad or worse in other states, so I do have some empathy for what is going on. Brings back a lot of bad memories, and fears of what might happen here as well as over there. My thoughts and prayers are with y'all.
 

stunta

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I hope I got this right - half a billion animals dead? That is a truly shocking number. I don't remember seeing this kind of death toll in any of the fires in the US.

I've visited Australia (Great Barrier Reef is my all time favorite destination) - its a beautiful country with lovely people and great wildlife. But its also getting hit hard with bleaching of the reef and now this fire among other things. I truly hope the country recovers and the rest of the world learns from this.
 

JJB70

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I've always had a morbid fear of burning and fire, for some reason of all the ways to die it seems about the most horrible (well, short of deliberate torture and abuse). In my career I've investigated fatal incidents on behalf of government agencies and the ones that left the biggest mark were the burns cases, truly horrible. My heart goes out to all those affected by these fires.
 

JeffS7444

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“Apocalyptic” is right. Hope that people do not shrug it off as a fluke, or simply accept it as a new normal.
 

Xulonn

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My heart goes out to those affected by the wildfires in the land of OZ. I know that the people of Australia will make it through this disaster, and hopefully in the future, they will elect leaders who will deal with the issues that made it worse than it should have been. (Aussies, when you read the prognostications of economists supporting the politicians, make sure that you know what "externalities" are. And realize that only (dreaded) government regulations will include provisions to cover the costs of externalities that can negatively affect the lives of millions.

It is difficult to avoid controversial discussions about fire and climate science, or the evidence for the root causes behind current trends in wildfires, but informed, educated people know that "yet another disaster has been made worse by climate change." When such disasters are over, it is critical to deal with issues that likely made it worse than it should have been, and attempt to reduce the impact of similar future disasters.

I am now an old man, and live in a small town in a beautiful rain-forest valley with little concern for wildfires. But I watch as people around the world resist the "inconveniences" that adapting to a more sustainable and safe (for humans) world necessitate. For the younger readers of this post, I hope that you will rally, respect the science, and reject the selfish interests of the rich and powerful who want to continue to exploit nature at great cost to many people. Science-based planning is not perfect, but it remains the best tool available to keep the earth a good place for humans to live.
--------------------
My background and interest in "fire ecology":


I have been one step away from losing possessions to two horrific urban wildfires. A house I rented for a year in 1977 was located above Lake Temescal in the hills of Oakland, California. Only one house on that street was left standing after the 1991 Oakland firestorm, which destroyed more than 3,200 homes. The house that I had rented previously burned to the ground. I had friends who lost their homes in that conflagration.

Years later, just over two years ago, the October, 2017 Tubbs fire in Santa Rosa, California, 12 miles from my former home in Sebastopol, Sonoma County, destroyed more than 5,600 structures - mostly homes and businesses. After six years of living in Panama as a retired expatriate, I had returned to Sonoma County six months earlier to retrieve the last of my possessions and take them back to Panama. The friend's house - and the garage where my books and photos had been stored for several years - burned to the ground in the Tubbs fire.

I understand wildfires quite well, and my interest in the subject was part of the motivation for returning to college to study ecology and conservation and graduating with a bachelor's degree from the University of California, Berkeley, in 1976.

The study of fire-maintained ecosystems like Australia and California was an integral part of an upper-division course I took at Berkeley while pursuing a B.S. degree in Conservation of Natural Resources. Much of the course's material was based on the work of then Professor Emeritus Harold Biswell, a pioneer of ecology-oriented wildfire science, and was taught by one of his colleagues. The very ecosystems in some regions of Australia, California and elsewhere around the world have evolved to thrive with periodic burning.

One of the subjects we studied in that ecology course, and also in another course entitled "The Sociology of Natural Resources," was "human to nature relationships" which is closely associated with "environmental ethics". A specific study that we examined was the relationship - and reactions to - bush fires in Australia. We humans have a strong ability to recover from such disasters, and then go back and rebuild as if the fire was not a naturally recurring phenomenon. And the same disaster would repeat twenty or thirty years later.

Unfortunately, the suppression of wildfires often leads to bigger and more destructive wildfires, but just like regulations for automobiles and their emissions, humans resist restrictions on their "freedom" and desires to build and live how and wherever they desire. With the current trend of climate change around the world, including more extreme weather (hotter, colder, wetter, dryer), wildfires in many places are becoming more and more destructive and/or frequent, and in many places, the ecosystems are not returning to their former composition. (The dry pinyon pine forests of the southwest USA as well as other types of forests in the western U.S. are good examples of that trend.)
 
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