Audyssey Room EQ Review

[Chromatischism]

Also, I pushed a button and bypassed the Audyssey equalizer. I thought I had new speakers. What a difference!!!

It sure will sound different. You'll also get a much more variable frequency response especially in the bass range.

I'd suggest using the Audyssey MultEQ app.

 

[bo_knows]

Yes, I've mentioned that a number of times in this thread, most recently just above in #501.
I've found BlueStacks Enulator to work by far the best though still having a few bugs. But in the last year or so it's become completely reliable. I've been in contact with the Aydyssey development team, pushing them for a native PC app. If any app was more deserving of a native build than this one I don't know what it is. So far my plea has fallen on deaf ears.

Wondering how many users and emails would take for them (Audyssey) to take this request seriously? Maybe we can all gang up on them.

 

[Dennis_FL]

Why?

I was finishing the thought......from above..

" ... I'm guessing that Audessey converts the DAC's analog signal to digital and then corrects for the Audessey EQ and converts back to analog? Is that right? If so, I need to do room correction in Roon and use "Pure DIrect" in my receiver - bypassing Audessey. ... "

So...D to A, then A to D and D to A again. ??????

 

[Weeb Labs]

I was finishing the thought......from above..

" ... I'm guessing that Audessey converts the DAC's analog signal to digital and then corrects for the Audessey EQ and converts back to analog? Is that right? If so, I need to do room correction in Roon and use "Pure DIrect" in my receiver - bypassing Audessey. ... "

So...D to A, then A to D and D to A again. ??????

It is dependent upon the chosen input but there are never more than two conversions (AD/DA). For digital inputs such as HDMI and SPDIF, the audio is passed directly to the DSP. Audyssey's filters are then applied and the output is passed to the DACs.

For analog inputs, audio is passed to an ADC (see AK5358 below), followed by the DSP and then to the DACs. Alternatively, analog inputs can bypass the ADCs altogether and be fed directly to the volume control and amplifiers if "Pure Direct" is enabled.

This block diagram is for a Denon X3500H but all AVRs share a similar signal chain.

 

[Chromatischism]

Good insights, but unfortunately, Pure Direct disables Audyssey, along with bass management.

 

[Weeb Labs]

Pure Direct mode electrically redirects the analog inputs to the volume control and amplifiers via NJU72750 (or similar) matrix switch, so it is unfortunately impossible for DSP of any variety to be simultaneously in use.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Good insights, but unfortunately, Pure Direct disables Audyssey, along with bass management.

Yup but, if you are playing from files, you should be able to apply EQ and/or bass management with your streamer/server/player.

 

[krabapple]

Good insights, but unfortunately, Pure Direct disables Audyssey, along with bass management.

Well...it wouldn't be 'pure direct' if it took a diversion through Audyssey, would it?. Or through any other DSP. Its selling point is aimed at signal chain purists. (It's also somewhat useful for A/Bing against Audyssey or other DSP)

IIRC there is sometimes also a 'Direct' option which is less 'pure'.

 

[Dennis_FL]

Good insights, but unfortunately, Pure Direct disables Audyssey, along with bass management.

Yeah.....but I'm just using the AVR for stereo from Roon and JRiver. No movies. I'm going to get a calibrated mike and use room equalization with Roon before the DAC.

Yesterday - I played an Audiophile tune with and without "Pure Direct" and there was a substantial improvement without Audyssey to my ears. I'm guessing the Marantz conversion of the DACs analog to digital and then back to analog again is not lossless.

 

[krabapple]

Much more likely the audible difference is due simply to switching off Audyssey EQ (including Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which is set on by default) - which is what Pure Direct does. It may even turn off speaker distance compensation, levels, and almost certainly bass management (if any is used). (Pure Direct on these functions seems to vary by AVR manufacturer). So, not sure why you think it's the DA-AD conversion. It doesn't matter if it's movies or 'audiophile tunes'. It doesn't matter if it's multichannel or stereo. Turning EQ on and off will likely have a significant effect.

As to why it sounds better to you off, there's too many variables (plus sighted bias) and unknowns to answer that.

 

[Dennis_FL]

krabapple….here’s a relevant thread where the digital processing is bypassed and volume control is by roon.

The signal from my DAC is analog and the Marantz needs to convert it to digital before room corrections. Then it converts back to analog before amplificatio.

I’m sure somewhere in this world someone has measured if there is signal degradation but to my ears there is.

 

[Chromatischism]

krabapple….here’s a relevant thread where the digital processing is bypassed and volume control is by roon.

The signal from my DAC is analog and the Marantz needs to convert it to digital before room corrections. Then it converts back to analog before amplificatio.

I’m sure somewhere in this world someone has measured if there is signal degradation but to my ears there is.

Yes: tests have been conducted converting back and forth eight times with little to no audible difference after blind testing.

 

[Dennis_FL]

Yes: tests have been conducted converting back and forth eight times with little to no audible difference after blind testing.

My question is whether the back and forth in a Marantz is no difference following a DAC that costs more than the receiver. I suppose if they are all of similar quality and sample rates.... it will be OK.

 

[Chromatischism]

That I do not know. The tests I recall seeing were not done with the Marantz. Can they be that different though?

 

[Jim in Florida]

That I do not know. The tests I recall seeing were not done with the Marantz. Can they be that different though?

Just had one of those "Twilight Zone moments" The current issue of Sound & Vision Q&A has a question from a guy with the same receiver I have (Marantz 6013) and he asks if the output of his DAC is converted to digital and back to analog (he's considering Tidal and an external DAC). Identical to my concerns above.

The tech editor at S&V called Marantz and reported that yes it does convert analog to digital for Aufyssey. And that using "Pure DIrect" bypasses the A/D D/A conversions but you also lose Audyssey equalization.

I'm going to follow up with S&V and ask if the volume control is analog with Pure DIrect and also if they know what the effect of not bypassing Audyssey has on sound quality.

 

[Weeb Labs]

I'm going to follow up with S&V and ask if the volume control is analog with Pure DIrect and also if they know what the effect of not bypassing Audyssey has on sound quality.

Volume control in Pure Direct mode is handled in exactly the same manner as when the AD/DSP/DA is in circuit, which is via digital analog control IC such as the NJU72343. These are not particularly high performance ICs but you can have a look at the relevant datasheet for the unit in your own AVR.

Most recent Denon AVRs actually incorporate two control ICs, with a higher performance SKU for the two Zone 2 channels. Unfortunately, those are only routed to the Zone 2 pre-outs and not to the amplifiers.

With AD/DSP/DA in circuit, performance is limited to the SINAD of the converter at each end of the signal chain (usually around 80dB) but the theoretical losses are greatly offset by the benefits of room correction.

All of this to say "it's academic and far below the threshold of audibility in any typical room, so don't worry about it".

 

[Thomas_A]

The simpler Marantz NR1710 adds jitter noise in the AD/DA chain, but as said with pure direct/direct all other functions are disabled.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tz-nr1710-slim-line-av-amp.19997/#post-664783

 

[Chromatischism]

Just had one of those "Twilight Zone moments" The current issue of Sound & Vision Q&A has a question from a guy with the same receiver I have (Marantz 6013) and he asks if the output of his DAC is converted to digital and back to analog (he's considering Tidal and an external DAC). Identical to my concerns above.

The tech editor at S&V called Marantz and reported that yes it does convert analog to digital for Aufyssey. And that using "Pure DIrect" bypasses the A/D D/A conversions but you also lose Audyssey equalization.

I'm going to follow up with S&V and ask if the volume control is analog with Pure DIrect and also if they know what the effect of not bypassing Audyssey has on sound quality.

I'm just not sure how you'll get room EQ working without converting to digital.

This is a common concern among turntable afficionados. The bottom line is: they need to get over it and embrace digital room correction. They are missing out.

 

[Sal1950]

I'm going to follow up with S&V and ask if the volume control is analog with Pure DIrect and also if they know what the effect of not bypassing Audyssey has on sound quality.

It will be greatly improved if you do a good job of running Audyssey. If any ad/da conversion imposes a change, it is extremely subtle, while OTOH if Audy config is done correctly, the improvement in sound will be far from subtle.
Take a chill pill, roll a fatty, and enjoy the benefits of 21st century sound gear.

 

[Jim in Florida]

Volume control in Pure Direct mode is handled in exactly the same manner as when the AD/DSP/DA is in circuit, which is via digital analog control IC such as the NJU72343. These are not particularly high performance ICs but you can have a look at the relevant datasheet for the unit in your own AVR.

Most recent Denon AVRs actually incorporate two control ICs, with a higher performance SKU for the two Zone 2 channels. Unfortunately, those are only routed to the Zone 2 pre-outs and not to the amplifiers.

With AD/DSP/DA in circuit, performance is limited to the SINAD of the converter at each end of the signal chain (usually around 80dB) but the theoretical losses are greatly offset by the benefits of room correction.

All of this to say "it's academic and far below the threshold of audibility in any typical room, so don't worry about it".

My concern was not noise but loss of source in the conversions. My DAC cost almost as much as my AVR receiver.