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Audyssey Room EQ Review

The funny thing about this is that i have changed the preset too many times to be aware which preset i am currently using which is why i am worried i will lose the preset
I have tried to replicate the preset in the multeq app with no results
Thank you for the tip about usb i was not aware its possible to send preset from the avr to an usb drive then i will experiment with changing then adding subwoofer
 
7. It's the best $20 accessory you will ever purchase for your Denon! It's clear from the question posted you don't have the app yet
Totally agree!
The biggest negative of the app is the small screen on which it's viewed and difficulty in making small changes to the response settings. I've found it hugely beneficial to run the app in a android emulator software like Bluestacks on my PC and large monitor.
Just another enhancement.
 
My Denon 3700 works with the included mic and receiver app to complete a calibration and setup.
Bought the now $25 Audyssey Multeq app so I could turn off the BBC dip.
No matter what do I can’t turn my sub loud enough. I move to next step and the app says the room is too noisy. I’m then stuck and can’t complete the calibration.
Moving the mic in front of the sub doesn’t move the slider, tapping it does.
Also moving the mic directly in front of the speaker cures the room too noisy problem. But returns as soon as I move the mic away for the next speaker.

Long of the short is seems the iPhone app version isn’t using the mic correctly. Don’t see anyone else having this issue on initial setup.

The mic to app mismatch again only happens with the paid app version not with the receivers internal audyssey program.
 
That is good to hear
I am having a fun experiment with different subwoofers with REW
Post another thread to tell us! Room correction though will correct for the subwoofer you used when you ran it-so if you change subs then the correction is to some extent wrong with the other subs.
 
No matter what do I can’t turn my sub loud enough. I move to next step and the app says the room is too noisy. I’m then stuck and can’t complete the calibration.
Can you complete a Audyssey setup with the onboard software?
No matter what do I can’t turn my sub loud enough. I move to next step and the app says the room is too noisy. I’m then stuck and can’t complete the calibration.
Does your sub have a input level control, turn that up some first.
Moving the mic in front of the sub doesn’t move the slider, tapping it does.
Also moving the mic directly in front of the speaker cures the room too noisy problem. But returns as soon as I move the mic away for the next speaker.
None of that will ever create a proper setup, don't waste you time with that.

I've been using the app for years, I'm sorry but something is very amiss in your operation of it.
 
My Denon 3700 works with the included mic and receiver app to complete a calibration and setup.
Bought the now $25 Audyssey Multeq app so I could turn off the BBC dip.
No matter what do I can’t turn my sub loud enough. I move to next step and the app says the room is too noisy. I’m then stuck and can’t complete the calibration.
Moving the mic in front of the sub doesn’t move the slider, tapping it does.
Also moving the mic directly in front of the speaker cures the room too noisy problem. But returns as soon as I move the mic away for the next speaker.

Long of the short is seems the iPhone app version isn’t using the mic correctly. Don’t see anyone else having this issue on initial setup.

The mic to app mismatch again only happens with the paid app version not with the receivers internal audyssey program.
You mostly likely have a defective microphone. Contact Denon support and ask for a replacement. I had the same experience with my 4800, and a replacement mic solved the problem.
 
I can complete a setup with the onboard application and this mic. Moving the mic was to test my theory it was picking up any sound.

I think the idea to pursue a new mic and that this one is defective is the best next step.
 
I can complete a setup with the onboard application and this mic. Moving the mic was to test my theory it was picking up any sound.

I think the idea to pursue a new mic and that this one is defective is the best next step.
If it works correctly for the std setup, I can't understand why it wouldn't do so with Editor?
Maybe you know someone around you that has a Marantz or Denon receiver mic to borrow, they're all the same.
 
My biggest issue with the app is that its really difficult to get the pins moving if there are pins close to each other
They start to snap to grid it looks like a bug on the ipad

The app also insists on crossover points it doesnt help to change them to large in the app the HP filter or What its called is fixed
It doesnt look like picture online where the pin goes straight line to 0hz
For me it starts to go down around a fixed point
 
Adding subwoofer without rerunning audyssey did not work
Audyssey became greyed out with the audio sounding like pure mode

I take it as If i run calibration then go back to my prefered preset it will revert back to 1 subwoofer which make my little experiment impossible
 
Adding subwoofer without rerunning audyssey did not work
Audyssey became greyed out with the audio sounding like pure mode

I take it as If i run calibration then go back to my prefered preset it will revert back to 1 subwoofer which make my little experiment impossible

Yes, you cannot add a second subwoofer to the output of the receiver for its own subwoofer signal feed without requiring a re-do of the calibration. It is no longer the same configuration of speakers.

You could split the output of the main sub output to feed two different subwoofers, but the Audyssey auto-eq settings wouldn't be applicable to the performance of the 2 subs.

Your receiver should have two speaker setting presets that you can switch between. You could set one for single sub, and the second preset to running both subs. Swapping between the two should be quick and easy.
 
hello, I'm a little lost to correctly place the microphone positions for calibration with the multi eq application
Should the 8 positions be close together? the same height?
THANKS
 
hello, I'm a little lost to correctly place the microphone positions for calibration with the multi eq application
Should the 8 positions be close together? the same height?
THANKSt
Anything between 15 to 24 inches of spacing between positions should be fine.

They can all be at ear height, or ear height for the main position, but vary the height for the forward positions should also work well.
 
hello, I'm a little lost to correctly place the microphone positions for calibration with the multi eq application
Should the 8 positions be close together? the same height?
THANKS
My receiver had a picture of where to measure.
 
Even the "main listening position" is technically 2 positions, for your 2 ears.

I changed the height when measuring as well, so center + left + right, moving 8-10" left and right from middle, for first three. 3 more about 6" forward and 4~6" lower, for slouching and moving around on the couch, and having multiple people seated. It's taking an average or weighted average, so it's good to measure that sphere.

Not "too" wide unless you are trying to EQ for 3~ actual listening positions for multiple seats for watching movies.
 
Anything between 15 to 24 inches of spacing between positions should be fine.

They can all be at ear height, or ear height for the main position, but vary the height for the forward positions should also work well.

It really depends on whether you intend to be the sole listener, or intend to have others with you.
 
[FIXED] Audyssey MultEQ App problem with Audyssey Flat setting not working with no audio output from the speakers: A Solution

GETTING MULTEQ FLAT FREQ SETTING TO WORK, A GUIDE:
Like most of you have faced this problem for almost a decade at this point or more (acc. to forum postings since when this problem was originally posted)

I have finally found a solution to it which seems to work in every case, unlike the previous fix which was just to upload the Audyssey file multiple times.

Background: so, for people who do not know, if you use Audyssey and upload the room correction EQ file to your AVR using the app, Audyssey has a few curve options such as Reference, L/R Bypass, Flat, and Off.

When we select the Audyssey Flat EQ. We would not have any audio coming out of the AVR at all and it would be dead silent, but this was not the case in the other modes. So, for me and others who had heard and liked the “Flat” Audyssey mode very much and for it to not work whenever we made any change in the app was very painful to see, other Audyssey modes were working normally but we don’t like the sound of it. This is the same issue faced by a whole lot of people for a decade at this point (based on when the first time this exact problem was posted on the internet). The best that people seem to have gotten to solving this problem was just to upload the Audyssey file multiple times but this never seems to work for me or others (but I think this was a rough fix that barely worked for some people with some old Denon receivers after they have uploaded it multiple times for it to work once and it would only work a few times until they needed to repeat this process. All of this for the “Flat” Audyssey mode to work because it would turn off the roll-off at the top end of the frequency range enhancing the natural characteristics of the speaker and making it sound much more natural and crisper and that was the reason for people to like this setting.

Why does Denon not fix it by themselves if this has been a major issue for such a long time?!:
I have a few years of basic experience working in the Embedded and Electronics, unlike the software field where you can just issue a new software update for any issue. In the Embedded field where are software works in a low level in tandem with the hardware and the physical pins and addresses cannot be changed once manufactured. When they would have released the first version of this app with new hardware. They would have never encountered this specific problem with hardware by the time they realised this problem. They would have seen that the models with issues are old/out of service spec to issue a recall and cannot be solved with a software fix.
And they don’t want to make a new app for the newer models most likely because that would create a lot of confusion for people who just want an AVR up and running and this is not meant to work with people who are not tech-savvy who just want an AVR up and running and not trying to figure out of the multiple apps by the same company and by trial and error to figure out which works for your AVR once you have spent quite a bit of dough for your AVR/Home Theatre set-up. Having multiple apps finickiness gives a sense of cheapness to the product and the company that would turn away buyers because in the same price range and cheaper, you have complete analogue receivers without any app/software fanciness and you just flip a switch and it works.

So other than hardware/financial limitations to issue a recall OR with audio companies having no resolute on-call software team OR to ensure user similarity and upkeep the at-premium value of the AVR, they have not/could not have fixed this issue.
I am not vouching for any brand and/or giving them cover for their mistakes. This is still awfully wrong from the audio company and has caused me a lot of head-banging to fix this issue by myself and leaving us consumers in the dark when asked for a fix, but this might provide some explanation for the people wondering why they cannot just fix it an update or a recall.

THE FIX:
(Please click on the pics to enlarge it so you can see the arrows and text clearly)
Image 1: This is the home section of the app where we can see our different “Audyssey Project Curves”, The fix to get the Flat Setting to work is to use the upload button located here. Where once we click the upload to AVR button, we must select which “Audyssey Project Curves” We have to upload and then we select the desired preset we would like to upload. Doing this makes the Flat EQ Work.
Image 2: This is where most people like me used the app to upload the current configuration (Because we would have just made the edit, and we would just like to upload it using the button designated for it instead of saving, coming back to the home screen and then click). THIS DOES NOT WORK. Please follow the method shown in the above instructions (Image 1).

TLDR: Use the upload button (Send to AVR) button in the home screen of the Audyssey phone app where you can see all your different curves (image 1) just as you open the app, DO NOT use the upload button inside any of the ‘MultEQ Curve editor settings’ (Image 2) where you click on each of the different room frequency curve Audyssey presets to edit different Audyssey settings and then upload to AVR without exiting to home page of the app. Using this button inside each preset editor to upload to AVR makes the ‘Audyssey Flat’ setting NOT work.

Use the ‘Upload to AVR’ button on the app home page (Where all diff projects can be seen; img1), Click the upload to AVR button and then select the curve you want the AVR to receive. This is to be done once changes are made to the curve.
This makes all the AVR settings work as normal.

Cheers!

Image 2.png
image1.png
 
[FIXED] Audyssey MultEQ App problem with Audyssey Flat setting not working with no audio output from the speakers: A Solution

GETTING MULTEQ FLAT FREQ SETTING TO WORK, A GUIDE:
Like most of you have faced this problem for almost a decade at this point or more (acc. to forum postings since when this problem was originally posted)

I have finally found a solution to it which seems to work in every case, unlike the previous fix which was just to upload the Audyssey file multiple times.

Background: so, for people who do not know, if you use Audyssey and upload the room correction EQ file to your AVR using the app, Audyssey has a few curve options such as Reference, L/R Bypass, Flat, and Off.

When we select the Audyssey Flat EQ. We would not have any audio coming out of the AVR at all and it would be dead silent, but this was not the case in the other modes. So, for me and others who had heard and liked the “Flat” Audyssey mode very much and for it to not work whenever we made any change in the app was very painful to see, other Audyssey modes were working normally but we don’t like the sound of it. This is the same issue faced by a whole lot of people for a decade at this point (based on when the first time this exact problem was posted on the internet). The best that people seem to have gotten to solving this problem was just to upload the Audyssey file multiple times but this never seems to work for me or others (but I think this was a rough fix that barely worked for some people with some old Denon receivers after they have uploaded it multiple times for it to work once and it would only work a few times until they needed to repeat this process. All of this for the “Flat” Audyssey mode to work because it would turn off the roll-off at the top end of the frequency range enhancing the natural characteristics of the speaker and making it sound much more natural and crisper and that was the reason for people to like this setting.

Why does Denon not fix it by themselves if this has been a major issue for such a long time?!:
I have a few years of basic experience working in the Embedded and Electronics, unlike the software field where you can just issue a new software update for any issue. In the Embedded field where are software works in a low level in tandem with the hardware and the physical pins and addresses cannot be changed once manufactured. When they would have released the first version of this app with new hardware. They would have never encountered this specific problem with hardware by the time they realised this problem. They would have seen that the models with issues are old/out of service spec to issue a recall and cannot be solved with a software fix.
And they don’t want to make a new app for the newer models most likely because that would create a lot of confusion for people who just want an AVR up and running and this is not meant to work with people who are not tech-savvy who just want an AVR up and running and not trying to figure out of the multiple apps by the same company and by trial and error to figure out which works for your AVR once you have spent quite a bit of dough for your AVR/Home Theatre set-up. Having multiple apps finickiness gives a sense of cheapness to the product and the company that would turn away buyers because in the same price range and cheaper, you have complete analogue receivers without any app/software fanciness and you just flip a switch and it works.

So other than hardware/financial limitations to issue a recall OR with audio companies having no resolute on-call software team OR to ensure user similarity and upkeep the at-premium value of the AVR, they have not/could not have fixed this issue.
I am not vouching for any brand and/or giving them cover for their mistakes. This is still awfully wrong from the audio company and has caused me a lot of head-banging to fix this issue by myself and leaving us consumers in the dark when asked for a fix, but this might provide some explanation for the people wondering why they cannot just fix it an update or a recall.

THE FIX:
(Please click on the pics to enlarge it so you can see the arrows and text clearly)
Image 1: This is the home section of the app where we can see our different “Audyssey Project Curves”, The fix to get the Flat Setting to work is to use the upload button located here. Where once we click the upload to AVR button, we must select which “Audyssey Project Curves” We have to upload and then we select the desired preset we would like to upload. Doing this makes the Flat EQ Work.
Image 2: This is where most people like me used the app to upload the current configuration (Because we would have just made the edit, and we would just like to upload it using the button designated for it instead of saving, coming back to the home screen and then click). THIS DOES NOT WORK. Please follow the method shown in the above instructions (Image 1).

TLDR: Use the upload button (Send to AVR) button in the home screen of the Audyssey phone app where you can see all your different curves (image 1) just as you open the app, DO NOT use the upload button inside any of the ‘MultEQ Curve editor settings’ (Image 2) where you click on each of the different room frequency curve Audyssey presets to edit different Audyssey settings and then upload to AVR without exiting to home page of the app. Using this button inside each preset editor to upload to AVR makes the ‘Audyssey Flat’ setting NOT work.

Use the ‘Upload to AVR’ button on the app home page (Where all diff projects can be seen; img1), Click the upload to AVR button and then select the curve you want the AVR to receive. This is to be done once changes are made to the curve.
This makes all the AVR settings work as normal.

Cheers!

View attachment 375638View attachment 375639
Interesting, for me, if and when that happened I would just upload it the second time and it would work. I don't know the exactly reason for to happen occasionally, but again when it did, uploading the 2nd time always fixed it. I didn't know it was different for others, but I guess now they can use your fix.
 
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audyssey Room Equalization. Audyssey is standard technology in a number of Audio/Video Receivers such as the Denon AVR-X3600H I recently reviewed. The standard version in the AVR is mostly all or nothing so I downloaded the Marantz/Denon Android App that for $20 lets you customize some critical aspects of it as you will see later.

My setup is my main music system which I would show you a picture of but it got so torn up with cables going everywhere to wire up the AVR which I am ashamed to show you. So see this picture from measurements of the Lyngdorf RoomPerfect EQ:

index.php


I put the AVR on the center amp you see on the floor and wired it to the two Salon 2 speakers. The sub is no longer there so I did not have it connected or tested.

I first ran the Audyssey EQ using the software built into the Denon AVR. The process was straightforward requiring a pair of measurements for each seat and a couple in the back. The chirp signal was run at surprisingly soft level. Maybe the microphone is sensitive.

I got a kick out of a few pieces of cardboard/plastic that you put together to act like a tripod. It reminded me of the 25 cent wooden gliders we would build when I was a child! This is in sharp contrast to the professional setup/tripod that comes with the likes of Anthem ARC. Or Minidsp DIRAC.

I had a tripod that I was going to use but it had a larger screw terminal than the one that came with the mic. So I used my hand to hold the mic while the measurements ran, being thankful that they ran rather quickly.

When finished, I could tell the improvement in room modes being reduced which was good. I noticed that Dynamic EQ was on by default. I turned it off and the sound became a lot less pleasant (I used the "Reference" mode). So was time to go into the app to adjust things.

I bought the app for my Samsung S8+ phone. It installed and instantly recognized the Denon AVR which was great. The AVR by the way was hardwired using Ethernet. I went into the wizard on the phone and it proceed to play the chirp signal on the left speaker. Once done though, it waited a few seconds and then complained that it could not communicate with the AVR ("Communication error (2)"). I was surprised there were very few hits on google search for this.

I decided to upgrade the AVR firmware which restarted it. Sadly, that didn't fix anything. So I decided to kill the App on my phone and restarted it. This time it worked! I ran through the wizard which was similar to the one in the AVR. Once there though, I immediately turned off the "BBC dip" which is an ill thought of feature of Audyssey where by default it puts a dip in mid frequencies. All the work good speaker designers do to produce a flat on-axis response gets destroyed by this decision.

Next, I wanted to fix another ill which is the target response. Audyssey uses a flat target curve for low frequencies which is a mistake. Equalization usually brings down the peaks created by the room modes. This fixes the problem but then overall bass feels too low compared to no EQ, resulting in many people not liking automatic EQ. The right "target curve" is one that has emphasis for bass and some dipping for highs. There is quick target curve with the high frequency attenuation but none with bass boost which is major miss. I had to create this manually which was a major pain to do by hand on a touch screen. Still, I managed to get there with a quick and dirty one:

View attachment 59655

Sorry for spelling mistake. :)

Audyssey App then did its thing and reported this as before an after:

View attachment 59656

As you will see shortly, the before measurements are pretty accurate. The after curve though seems like a miracle with every up and down completely eliminated, sans that one dip in low frequencies. This is a simulated lies of course. Audysssey does not remeasure the room to tell you what the after EQ results look like. This is some kind of simulated results which is basically the target curve and not much more. Since measurements are made at multiple points, repeating them is very hard anyway so even if it wanted to remeasure, it could not replicate the same conditions.

Anyway, I told it to upload the data to the AVR which took a bit. Once there, the results were superb! The sound out of my system was now reference quality, pinning me down to my seat listening to track after track from my "audiophile" playlist. Room modes were gone and the deep, floor shaking bass that I expect from my Salon 2 speakers were back with the new target curve. Detail was to die for. Bass was clean. On and on.

I do wish that I could have multiple target curves to compare. Sadly there is no way to have multiple profiles in the AVR for different target curves. Every change to the target curve requires download into the AVR and waiting for it to restart. My Dirac EQ lets me do that and switch between them in a second or two. AVRs are built cheap and don't have the necessary memory for multiple filter coefficients.

Room EQ Verification
Given the fact that the app lies to us as far as the response after the measurement, we need to do our own homework to see what has been done. For this, I measured the room using my own microphone and Room EQ Wizard. I used a USB to S/PDIF converter to push audio into the Denon AVR and switched Audyssey on and off. Here are the results with 1/12 octave filtering so we can see what is going on in the important low frequency domain:

View attachment 59657

I have noted in my speaker reviews how I filter out a room mode at 102 Hz and you can see the reason clearly here. The black curve is without EQ and we see a very high amplitude peak there. It is about 8 to 10 dB higher than average level! Audyssey EQ has correctly identified that peak and pulled it down to the custom target curve I had created (red graph).

The dips are reduced in bass frequencies which usually is hard with just a filter. Dips are created due to partial cancellation of the direct and reflected sounds. Changing the signal electronically modifies both direct sound and reflected one so the net sum is zero. In practice, you can try to boost them a few dB and see what happens (this stressed the amplifier and speaker by the way). Alternatively EQ systems bring the entire level down and as such, what used to be a deep dip, is no longer so. Once all the correction is done, they slightly boost things back up. I am assuming that is what is going on.

Stepping back for a second, we can see the red graph looks nothing like the one the App had told us was "after" results. Even if we filter the curvers a ton, we still don't get to what it said was happening:


View attachment 59659

I have overlaid the target curve on top of the before and after measurement. We see that it has generally followed that curve. The big dip at the end is probably due to my measurement mic running without calibration.

Conclusions
I came into this review expecting Audyssey to not perform. That was my experience and that of formal blind testing of it years back. The out of box results of this "XT32" version was better than I remembered. Still, using the App is mandatory to properly incorporate a target curve with more bass and removal of "BBC dip." Once there, I had no issues with its performance and I think it comes very close to advanced solutions like Dirac and Anthem ARC.

I am happy to recommend Audyssey XT32 with use of Denon/Marantz app to customize it.

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

I just bought a $600 lift to help me elevate big and heavy speakers onto my measurement rig. Needless to say, nothing makes more more depressed than spending my own money. So I hope you help replenish my piggy bank by donating what you can using : https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
How you made this custom curve, and where. Can you please share the process and the steps you followed?
 
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