Atmos finally decoded in PC/Mac

[Curvature]

no one has yet created a correct parser atmos tool that retrieve ALL the configuration (bed + objects metadata) from the atmos master.

DRP + gstreamer just renders a static atmos
MMH does the same thing
Cavern is the only guy that tried something near pefect but it only works with DDP JOC and its implementation is also not correct as it gives you way less objects than in the source + wrong atmos metadata

so as of today Atmos is not yet decoded in a software way on pc. You guys are just playing 7.1.2 to 9.1.6 renders wav which is basically static atmos. Fine for you if you're satisfied with that but it's wrong.

Do you have any sources or proof?

 

[Atmoslover78]

Do you have any sources or proof?

Any DAW can show you that. Mine is Nuendo 13, but protools, davinci resolve, and any other professionnal DAW can do the same.

=> 1) grab a non-altered atmos mix master file from netflix => http://download.opencontent.netflix.com.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html?prefix=SolLevante/protools/
=> 2) Convert it to ADM BWF using this free tool from Dolby => https://professional.dolby.com/product/dolby-atmos-content-creation/dolby-atmos-conversion-tool/
=> 3) Load the ADM BWF into your DAW
=> 4) Watch a real dynamic atmos audio in action with the dolby atmos renderer showing you the objects moving in the 3D Space ( X, Y, Z)
=> 5) (optional) Open sollevante_lp_v01_DAMF_Nearfield_48k_24b_24.atmos.metadata with a text editor like notepad and pay attention to the data written in it, it's the panning object metadata (spatial coordinates where the sound must be played)

==========

=> 6) Now, Encode that legit atmos master sollevante_lp_v01_DAMF_Nearfield_48k_24b_24.atmos from netflix to DDP JOC or TrueHD Atmos using DME (dolby media encoder) / DEE (dolby encoding engine)
=> 7) Use MMH atmos tool or DRP + gstream method or Cavern on that DDP JOC / THD Atmos you created at step 6 file to make anything you like from 7.1.2 to 9.1.6 mch wav
=> 8) And just listen to the differences between the DDP JOC/THD (encoded at step 6 from the atmos master grabbed on netflix) and the mch wav you "reverse-created" using DRP+Gstream method. Just bitstream the legit one you encoded to your AVR/ and do the same with the file you got from MMH/Cavern/Gstream+DRP
=> 9) You'll notice the lack of objects meaning spatial positionning of the sound is lost
=> 10) (optional) Generate back an ADM BWF file/Master atmos from the DDP JOC / TrueHD Atmos created at step 6 , using MMH/Cavern/Gstream+DRP and use notepad on the metadata file generated.
=> 11) Load it into your DAW and see the differences between the legit dynamic atmos master file from netflix u got at step 1 and the one you currently have... which is horribly static.
=> 12) see the differences between the legit metadata file you grabbed from netflix and opened at step 5 and the one you currently have which is either empty, blank or filled with incorrect atmos metadata.

 

[himey]

if you're satisfied with that

Have you sat down and made any comparisons? Can you point to a specific selection, and hear something is missing or not moving? Do you personally think it sounds off?
Edit...
I only listen to Atmos music, and personally I think the decoded Atmos sounds great. I am trying to get a mental image of how an object can move, other than between channels, corresponding to the layout setting, but what do I know.

 

[VoidX]

Any DAW can show you that. Mine is Nuendo 13, but protools, davinci resolve, and any other professionnal DAW can do the same.

=> 1) grab a non-altered atmos mix master file from netflix

This is the fundamental error with your argument. Home Atmos formats are limited to 16 objects instead of 128 that's in the cinema, so some have to be aggregated. You can read about how they do that here. Since home Atmos is - in this regard - lossy, this is the point where you already lost your data, this is why reencoded ADMs lose objects in your DAW. It's like saving a 5.1 as stereo, then upmixing it back to 5.1.

The reason you should not care, is the way Atmos was designed for home. It's 16 channels max, 9.1.6, that's it, the reference renderer doesn't support more, only Trinnov and Cavern, neither of which having any meaningful market reach. There are technical factors for choosing 16 (even DD+ was designed with 64 in mind), but that's another topic.

So, back to the topic, we have this 9.1.6 maximum. Why shouldn't they just pre-render that? Well, they do! Your mix is pre-made, sounds exactly the same on that layout, saves computing power, allows for transport over ARC, etc. Every lower channel count available for home users can be losslessly matrix mixed from 9.1.6, the formulas yield the exact same result after these 2 transformations compared to just mixing straight to a lower channel count.

Object movements are a gimmick and bias any discussions regarding mixing quality. There are completely channel-based Atmos mixes that are exceptionally good, like Ready Player One. The reason we have objects is clout. Dolby's bubbles are only good to show people how fancy this new thing is they "invented". It has nothing to do with the fact that channel-based Atmos existed back in 2001 called WaveFormatExtensible, I can assure you. Giving users a dumbed down studio project file conveniently makes Atmos incompatible with open standards.

I'm guilty of this too by promoting Cavern with being capable of visually rendering objects from both ADMs and EC3s. Before that, there was only that single YouTube video showing a Trinnov's renderer, and people were only blaming a few movies which were bad as a movie anyway. Giving everyone an object viewer fueled this discussion built on wrong foundations, and just made them demand more bubbles regardless they still have <16 physical speakers and nothing would make a difference.

I honestly regret making that visualizer, and especially regret making it possible to convert stuff back to ADM. It didn't exist for a reason. This bubble marketing was so good that people regularly forget that at the end of the day they listen to channels that are selected from a predetermined set. I have to tell this over and over again, and the invalid counterarguments are made with my own tools. This is just tiring. The amount of time I spent in the past year explaining these and correcting misinformation caused by, well, me, would have been enough to code support for an entire new codec.

 

[IONLYlisten]

It's 16 channels max, 9.1.6, that's it, the reference renderer doesn't support more

What about video games that use Atmos?

 

[Chromatischism]

What about video games that use Atmos?

Are there any?

 

[JSmith]

Are there any?

Yep;

Gaming in Dolby Atmos

Unlock the ultimate gaming experience with the latest games and gear enabled with Dolby Atmos. Improve your gameplay and your competitive advantage with games in Dolby.

www.dolby.com

List of games that support Dolby Atmos - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com

JSmith

 

[VoidX]

What about video games that use Atmos?

They use something called Intermediate Spatial Format. It's a fixed 9.1.5 (yes, 5). That feature is very poorly documented, but it was never seen in EC3 files.

 

[Reverend Slim]

What about video games that use Atmos?

Video game audio is inherently object-based. In the case of PC and Xbox, Microsoft has a spatial audio standard as part of the SDK that can then be ported out to either Atmos or DTS:X (or the binaural versions, including their own Windows Sonic). There are a LOT of games in Atmos - pretty much every game that uses Microsoft's spatial audio hooks. The problem in identifying how many is that if a game doesn't use any of the spatial audio features, the Atmos implementation automatically applies console/PC-side upmixing to create heights for output so that the output format doesn't have to automatically change based on the content.

As far as the objects supported, here's console and PC support per Microsoft:

Format	Max Static Objects (Channel Bed)	Max Dynamic Objects Xbox Series X|S, UWP apps & >=2303 GDK	Max Dynamic Objects Xbox Series X|S, XDK & <2303 GDK	Max Dynamic Objects Xbox One
Dolby Atmos for Home Theater (HDMI)	12 (7.1.4)	20	20	20
DTS:X for Home Theater (HDMI)	17 (8.1.4.4)	20	20	16
Dolby Atmos (Headphones)	17 (8.1.4.4)	128	20	16
DTS Headphone:X (Headphones)	17 (8.1.4.4)	200	20	16
Windows Sonic (Headphones)	17 (8.1.4.4)	220	20	15

Format	Max Static Objects (Channel Bed)	Max Dynamic Objects Windows	Max Dynamic Objects HoloLens 2
Dolby Atmos home theater (HDMI)	12 (7.1.4)	20	N/A
DTS:X for home theater (HDMI)	17 (8.1.4.4)	32	N/A
Dolby Atmos (Headphones)	17 (8.1.4.4)	128	N/A
Dolby Atmos (Built-in Speakers )	17 (8.1.4.4)	128	N/A
DTS Headphone:X (Headphones)	17 (8.1.4.4)	128	N/A
DTS:X Ultra (Built-in Speakers)	17 (8.1.4.4)	128	N/A
Windows Sonic (Headphones)	17 (8.1.4.4)	128	31

Real talk though... Anyone with an Xbox hooked to a Trinnov will tell you that you're getting a locked 7.1.4 output even on the showcase Atmos games like Gears 5 or Rise Of The Tomb Raider.