Thanks. It might be the case and measuring conditions have to be stated. Based on Ascend V2 dimensions, measuring distance should have been at least 60 cm (3xW). One remark - the distance of centers of the drivers used should be 5/4 lambda at the crossover frequency, to minimize phase influence.You are not fully understanding what you are seeing. Please see my response to this way back on 2nd page.
Ascend Sierra-1 V2 Speaker Review
I looked at the linearity test and wondered how that large ~3KHz dip manifested. Might the mic not have been on axis? It’s a near-field and non-anechoic measurement I believe; all that matters is relative difference though.
It would be best if Amir explained this in his measurements to avoid confusion... @amirm
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Ascend Sierra-1 V2 Speaker Review
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DanielT
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But then the Ascend Sierra-1 V2 is good because they don't seem to go below 7 Ohm.OK. I'm going to try.
The amplifier supplies voltage and current. The ideal is that the voltage at the speaker terminals is a perfect copy of the shape of input signal to the amp but at proportionally higher voltages, regardless of current (amps).
What is taxing about low impedance in a speaker is that lowering impedance or resistance increases current for the same voltage and draws more power. Why is that a problem? Higher current means that the resistances and impedances within all the components in the amp will draw more power as well and cause the voltage to reduce or droop at the speaker. Every component in the chain will draw some power and drop some voltage in proportion the amount of current. This changes or distorts the shape of the sound signal at the speaker.
Ideally the amp will have a vanishingly small internal impedance or resistance compared to the speaker impedance meaning that the amplified voltage at the speaker would be perfect, but this is not possible. Amplifier designs do various things to combat this problem by having reserves that can provide large amounts of current and power at the precise instant of demand but nothing is perfect.
Low impedance in a speaker is bad for amplifiers in other words and will increase distortion. This is true even if the current and power draw is within the capability or specs of the amp.
Higher impedance in the speaker means less distortion of the signal or voltage in the amplifier. That's physics. I hope this helps!
Okay 81 dB sensitivity that they have may require a decent amount of amp power in itself but apart from that.
Edit:
Amir's measurement is based on a speaker, it should be added. With two speakers, the sensitivity increases.
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To clarify.And I have commented on my LX delivery to the UK, on the previous page of this thread.
From online order to delivery was less than two weeks. Total costs, including delivery and UK import tax converted to about £1800 I think.
Tell
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First time posting here, have been lurking for quite some time reading and taking in all the stuff that more clever than me are writing
But now I had to register to ask here since it looks like you have something there that I might have been misunderstanding for years and need some clarification on.
I thought that the sensitivity of a speaker is say 81dB/1W, and 1 watt at 2.83V is 0.35A no matter the resistance, so a lower impedance speaker connected to an amplifier will be able to bring more power from the amp if needed to. But it feels like I'm missing something big on how amplifiers work internally, so if you have the time to explain and maybe give some calculation examples that would be appreciated
(I have been reading your sequent replies as well but I still haven't really gotten it)friedpickles
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Wondering if these or the Revel M16 should be my next purchase. Measurements say the M16's are slightly bassier, not sure if I would like that.. Anyone happen to have experience with both? Also how would these fare at ~3ft away? M16 on are $570/pair in white at crutchfield at the moment.
I have some limited experience with both. They are somewhat comparable in my opinion. The M16's have a prominent bass hump around 100hz that took me a couple of weeks to get used to. After about 5 weeks of listening -- I find them very good, though a bit on the clinical side for my tastes. The Sierra 1 V2's have no bass hump and yet better extension, and seem very musical to me. I think the M105 or M106 performance might be closer to the Sierra 1 V2's. I'm also not a fan of the M16's aesthetics; I don't like glossy. I can't speak to 3ft near field -- I listen at about 7.5ft.
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M16 is a very old offering from Revel. I have them, they are good, but after listening to other better speakers, the M16 are meh.
ROOSKIE
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He is talking about the speakers rated sensitivity @2.83volts not @1watt.First time posting here, have been lurking for quite some time reading and taking in all the stuff that more clever than me are writing
But now I had to register to ask here since it looks like you have something there that I might have been misunderstanding for years and need some clarification on.
I thought that the sensitivity of a speaker is say 81dB/1W, and 1 watt at 2.83V is 0.35A no matter the resistance, so a lower impedance speaker connected to an amplifier will be able to bring more power from the amp if needed to. But it feels like I'm missing something big on how amplifiers work internally, so if you have the time to explain and maybe give some calculation examples that would be appreciated
Nobody really uses sensitivity ratings @1watt anymore.
2 speakers rated at 81db sensitivity at 2.83v do not have to have the same impedance.
An 8ohm speaker and a 2ohm speaker could both be rated at a sensitivity of [email protected].
Very different draws on the amp.
One breaks many amps, but even if it did not most amps do not double output as impedance halves so you lose something even if it handles 1&2ohm loads.
Beyond that obviously a 5" woofer based speaker with a 81db/2.83v sensitivity is going to require 4 times the power of an 87db sensitive design for equal SPL meaning the amp will often be driven hard unless you never listen at louder levels.
Now imagine a 8ohm nominal load with 87db sensitivity(very rare for any small 5" monitor, it would typically give up all low bass ability --> which is fine in subwoofer use cases) vs a 4ohm nominal with 81db sensitivity.
With that low sensitivity and 4ohm nominal (with typical dips well below and possible hard phase angles)The amp is going to work so much harder and therefore the cumulative of whatever % is lost to heat is so much greater. With certain amps this is no issue with others it could be.
If you buy these buy a very solid amp.
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First time posting here, have been lurking for quite some time reading and taking in all the stuff that more clever than me are writing
But now I had to register to ask here since it looks like you have something there that I might have been misunderstanding for years and need some clarification on.
I thought that the sensitivity of a speaker is say 81dB/1W, and 1 watt at 2.83V is 0.35A no matter the resistance, so a lower impedance speaker connected to an amplifier will be able to bring more power from the amp if needed to. But it feels like I'm missing something big on how amplifiers work internally, so if you have the time to explain and maybe give some calculation examples that would be appreciated
Yes. If the impedance is lower then more power will be drawn from the amp if everything else is equal. Which can mean that the speaker can use that power to play louder or waste the power as heat or more likely both. This may cause more distortion in the amplifier and also more distortion in the speaker response.
The above is a simplification and always the case but a generalisation if everything else is equal, which it never is, except maybe in a lab experiment.
It's more complicated than that but hopefully that may explain why we are saying that higher impedance in a speaker can be a good thing.
Yes I think the compromise that Ascend have made between sensitivity, impedance, frequency response and distortion is a very good one for the price. You will need an amp with a good power output to play these loud but the amp won't need to handle low impedance. This should fit well with many current class D amps which can have high power but less ability to deal with low impedance.But then the Ascend Sierra-1 V2 is good because they don't seem to go below 7 Ohm.
Okay 81 dB sensitivity that they have may require a decent amount of amp power in itself but apart from that.
@AscendDF
On a different note - please consider investing in slightly better photography for your speakers. The recent measurements and subjective notes here and on other respectable review sites are very compelling for the class. But now as a potential buyer I find it hard to get a sense of how different finishes actually look IRL just looking at the images on the website. Higher res images with better angles and lighting would help a lot.
On a different note - please consider investing in slightly better photography for your speakers. The recent measurements and subjective notes here and on other respectable review sites are very compelling for the class. But now as a potential buyer I find it hard to get a sense of how different finishes actually look IRL just looking at the images on the website. Higher res images with better angles and lighting would help a lot.
There is a customer gallery on the website which hopefully helps with this https://ascendacoustics.com/pages/customer-gallery
Lol how did I missed that... It does help indeed. Thank you.
Also, on the individual product pages there is a tab called "gallery" which shows the speakers in different finishes and from different angles.
Those look rendered.
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Yeah but that extra power that a 4ohm speaker is drawing compared to a 8ohm one isn't that also converted into 3dB higher SPL which obviously should also increase distortion and heat output? Or is it something else that I'm missing here?
If you're committed to doing room EQ for the bass then it doesn't matter what the bass is as long as the distortion is low enough and if you need to boost the bass then you'd need to take that into account re distortion. If you're not gonna do room EQ then I would personally recommend getting an anechoic flat speaker in the bass (and Anechoic Flat for the rest of the frequency response of course which is a given). I ran with Anechoic Flat & no room EQ on my JBL 308p's for quite some time and it's quite satisfying throughout the room. Room EQ is good if you want to optimise for a set listening position though, in which case I refer to my first sentence in this post.
EDIT: when doing Room EQ I prefer Harman Curve bass, so that's put my comment into perspective with my recommendation of Anechoic Flat in the bass if you're not gonna do Room EQ. (In terms of taste for bass level)
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They are not.
A good specimen of Klippel and Toole-based design, but it's hard to get excited about an 81 dB speaker whose bass doubles like crazy when powered up.
I hope that emphasizing "in-room sensitivity" doesn't become a trend, especially in attempts to rehabilitate units with low anechoic numbers.
I hope that emphasizing "in-room sensitivity" doesn't become a trend, especially in attempts to rehabilitate units with low anechoic numbers.
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