Advice for Streamer / AMP

[dalyan]

Hello everyone,

First of all, this is my first post in this forum, and I hope I am doing everything right. Since I finally have the financial means to build my own stereo system, I have been doing some research for the past month. So naturally I have been a lurker in this forum for quite some time now. For the speakers yesterday I finally pulled the trigger and bought a pair of Arendals 1723 THX Tower. Reviews, Measurements and the outstanding support from the Arendal guys made this (difficult) decision ultimately feel right. Since you cannot really audition them, I cannot wait for the speakers to arrive.

Now I need an amp to power the 1723s. To me this decision is very difficult. I have read a lot of opinions about amps ranging from "there is no real sound difference between solid state amps unless the amps are manipulating the input on purpose" to "amps are the core piece piece for an audiophile experience, and you need to splash real money to get a good amp". In combination with the tube vs hybrid vs solid state discussion I am left confused.

Maybe you guys can help me out to make an good decision.

What I need:

• Majority of the time, I am going keep the volume low. I probably won't need too much wattage. With 92dB/2.83v/1m the 1723s should be quite sensitive anyways.
• I want to be able to control music from devices connected to my network. It doesnt matter too much to me if I buy an integrated streamer, or a separate streamer to achieve this
• Later down the route I want to have a NAS with music stored. System should be compatible with this.
• System should be roon ready
• System should have an Input for my TV / Beamer. Preferably HDMI Arc, so I dont have to manually switch between source all the time.
• Set-up should be roughly $2k on the second hand market unless you have very compelling arguments, why I need more expensive gear.

Can-Criteria

• I want to have the possibility to turn down the bass
• System should look aesthetically pleasing. I am going for a scandinavian and modern feel in my living space, so the devices shouldnt have this "busy"-look with a million buttons and knobs etc.
• System should have a phono in, so I might buy a turntable later down the road

These are the

All-In-One Streamers

• Cambridge Evo 75 / 150 (so far my preference, since it seems to be traded a lot in the second hand market)
• Naim Atom (2x 40W? Can that be enough? Also there seems to be a quite large fraction in the community who despise Naim, so I am careful with this brand)
• Rose RS 520 (looks nice, but rather expansive and not easy to get in europe)

Solid State / Hybrid + Streamer

• Benchmark AHB2 + Ext. Streamer
• (Budget Version) Yamaha A-501 + Ext. Streamer (Though I am not sure how I would connect my TV or my streamer to it)
• Vincent SV237 or Vincent SV200 + Ext. Streamer (This hybrid-idea came from a review of jays iyagi, who reviewed the 1723 and recommends hybrid amps with it. Not sure what to think of that)
• Heaven 11 Billie + Ext. Streamer

What are your thoughts / recommendations?

 

[telemike]

Cyrus One Cast
Rotel S14

 

[zeropoint]

Have you seen the ASR review of the Atom?

Naim Uniti Atom Review (Streamer & Amp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Naim Uniti Atom streamer, DAC and integrated amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $3,799. The overall industry design is attractive and has a high-end look to it. Alas, every part of the unit has an ultra sharp edge from...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[zeropoint]

Another AIO option to consider, which I can't vouch for, is the Audiolab Omnia.

 

[dalyan]

Have you seen the ASR review of the Atom?

Naim Uniti Atom Review (Streamer & Amp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Naim Uniti Atom streamer, DAC and integrated amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $3,799. The overall industry design is attractive and has a high-end look to it. Alas, every part of the unit has an ultra sharp edge from...

www.audiosciencereview.com

No, does not look very flattering though.
I found an second hand Atom with a defect sound knob for 1.200€ It does not have HDMI Arc though and I honestly cannot see myself manually switching input source all the time. Seing this review makes me not want to buy it even more. Is there any AIO that has measured good results?

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I will look into them.

 

[telemike]

The Cyrus will fit your needs. Plenty of power and has HDMI ARC

 

[dalyan]

Cyrus looks nice and comparebly cheap. Makes me think if there is any downside.
Beginner question: should I worried that the 1723 has an 4-ohm nominal impedance while many amps have power into 8 ohms?

 

[AdamG]

From Arendel’s website: RECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER Up to 500W RMS @ 4ohm with a SENSITIVITY of 92dB/2.83v/1m

1723 Tower THX

FREE Shipping10 Years Warranty60 Days Audition Period100%

arendalsound.com

Just based on what the Manufacturer says you are going to want an Amp that can deliver 500 watts per channel at 4 ohms. Anything less will reduce the Bass output capability. Start eliminating Amps not rated for 4ohm loads and less than 500 watts peak power output. While the advertised sensitivity is high at 92dB. Most companies play fast and loose with this rating. I am not saying that is the case here. Just keep this in mind. These are big speakers and they have 4 8” woofers each. To get the most performance out of these you are probably going to need a Amp that can deliver the rated power.

 

[zeropoint]

How about the SVS Prime Wireless Pro Soundbase:

Prime Wireless Pro SoundBase

Bring speakers into the future of immersive sound with 300 watts of power, Apple Airplay 2, Chromecast, WiFi, HDMI, and more.

www.svsound.com

 

[dalyan]

From Arendel’s website: RECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER Up to 500W RMS @ 4ohm with a SENSITIVITY of 92dB/2.83v/1m

1723 Tower THX

FREE Shipping10 Years Warranty60 Days Audition Period100%

arendalsound.com

Just based on what the Manufacturer says you are going to want an Amp that can deliver 500 watts per channel at 4 ohms. Anything less will reduce the Bass output capability. Start eliminating Amps not rated for 4ohm loads and less than 500 watts peak power output. While the advertised sensitivity is high at 92dB. Most companies play fast and loose with this rating. I am not saying that is the case here. Just keep this in mind. These are big speakers and they have 4 8” woofers each. To get the most performance out of these you are probably going to need a Amp that can deliver the rated power.

Interesting. I always read this as: "dont go over 500W RMS else you might fry your speakers"
Do I really need 500W per Channel if I want to listen to music at 80db?

 

[AdamG]

Interesting. I always read this as: "dont go over 500W RMS else you might fry your speakers"
Do I really need 500W per Channel if I want to listen to music at 80db?

See post 1 & 3. It’s not about 80db. Music is never at a steady state of loudness. Music is dynamic and goes from quiet to loud and back again. This loudness change requires less and more amp power as the music plays. Thus the dynamic terminology. We normally set the volume to the lowest part. Read up on Dynamic Range and understand that a 3-4 db increase is considered a doubling of loudness. Amp power needs to double as well. Some symphony music has a 12 db range. This is just an example using the 12 db song. If we start out listening to it at 40 watts to achieve our 80db quiet level. A max dynamic range would be about 92dB and to get that loud we will need 4 times the power or 320 watts. Do some research on “Dynamic range of Music”, “Amplifier Clipping”, that will get you started on the path of understanding this complex subject and able to decide for yourself what you need. The below video is a good example. Watch the video in post 3.

Amplifier Power: How much do you really need and your system’s dynamic range.

During my chat with the The Daily HiFi guys this past Monday, the topic of higher sensitivity speakers having more dynamic range came up. I gave my condensed spiel about why I think it isn't the speakers but rather the system as a whole that when integrating higher sensitivity speakers that...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[voodooless]

From Arendel’s website: RECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER Up to 500W RMS @ 4ohm with a SENSITIVITY of 92dB/2.83v/1m

1723 Tower THX

FREE Shipping10 Years Warranty60 Days Audition Period100%

arendalsound.com

Just based on what the Manufacturer says you are going to want an Amp that can deliver 500 watts per channel at 4 ohms.

It says “up to”. That doesn’t mean you actually need 500W. At that sensitivity, I’m pretty sure 100W will already be plenty loud. 500W will only be a few dB louder.

They also say they need 50 hours of burn-in, don’t take everything as gospel.

These are big speakers and they have 4 8” woofers each.

More drivers doesn’t mean they need more power. Nor does a bigger speaker need more power. In fact, a bigger enclosure is more efficient than a smaller one.

100W gets you upto 109 dB at 9ft distance. That’s plenty to basically play at concert level loudness.

 

[AdamG]

It says “up to”. That doesn’t mean you actually need 500W. At that sensitivity, I’m pretty sure 100W will already be plenty loud. 500W will only be a few dB louder.

They also say they need 50 hours of burn-in, don’t take everything as gospel.

More drivers doesn’t mean they need more power. Nor does a bigger speaker need more power. In fact, a bigger enclosure is more efficient than a smaller one.

Yeah I was over simplifying my point. I never take manufacture data as gospel. I even said that about their efficiency rating. 4 x 8” woofers are sharing the incoming power. My experience is more drivers will need more power. Is that incorrect in general?

 

[voodooless]

My experience is more drivers will need more power. Is that incorrect in general?

Yes. They can go louder obviously, but they are not less efficient.

A few things at play here:
- if you compare 1 vs 2 woofers, obviously the impedance plays a role. For the same voltage, you get more or less current depending on the configuration.
- more woofers playing together may result in lower distortion. In bass distortion is relatively large, so may be audible faster (although our ears are less susceptible here). This may lead you to perceive the more distorted single woofer as louder
- since you have better power handling, lower distortion you can turn them up further. This may also contribute to thinking it needs more power.
- if you do not increase the enclosure with multiple drivers you’ll lower efficiency of the overall system. Obviously you’ll need more power to compensate.

 

[mtnbikerva1]

Look at the Yamaha R-N200A. It does everything.
I enjoy mine.
Suprised how much I listen to internet radio. Music, news, comedy, finance,

 

[Michou]

Another AIO option to consider, which I can't vouch for, is the Audiolab Omnia.

There îs also the Technics C600 all-in-one you may want to consider

 

[jcris]

I’m curious if you’ve come to any conclusions?

 

[PortalKeeper]

AUDIOPHONICS HPA-S500ET Power Amplifier Purifi 1ET7040SA

The Audiophonics HPA-S500ET power amplifier unveils a Class D architecture based on a pair of Purifi 1ET7040SA modules and a custom-designed power supply to enable the amplifier to deliver its full potential.

www.audiophonics.fr

Just as your amp. Shipping discount for first time customers I believe. This is the best you will get in terms of measurements vs price.

 

[ovi]

How about the SVS Prime Wireless Pro Soundbase:

Prime Wireless Pro SoundBase

Bring speakers into the future of immersive sound with 300 watts of power, Apple Airplay 2, Chromecast, WiFi, HDMI, and more.

www.svsound.com

Has this been reviewed here at ASR as I can't seem to find it.