Are tubes more musical?

[olds1959special]

What is it that I’m hearing in my tube preamp and tubed headphone amp that is so romantic, warm, soft around the edges, and smooth, even syrupy sometimes? I’m not talking about hybrid amps or tube buffers. (My headphone amp is an OTL design, my preamp has no transistors in the audio circuit.) Do tubes enhance dynamics? They seem to create a feeling of space and holographic imaging. These qualities make it great for home audio applications. Of course they add distortion but it’s pleasing to the ear. The warm sound of tubes seems perfect for laid back and acoustic music styles like jazz. In my experience, most typical solid state gear can’t perform as well for getting the presentation and emotional impact of music right. Are tubes more musical?

 

[Bruce Morgen]

 

[GXAlan]

One way to answer it is to measure or compare in a blind fashion. This helps you prove the difference is audible and gets to the idea

Tubes do not have a defined sound since different tubes and different tube topologies measure and sound different.

VACUUM TUBE VALLEY: 90's and 00's tube technology

Vacuum Tube magazine from the turn of the 21st Century

www.worldradiohistory.com

Is a good place to start.

 

[MattHooper]

 

[bluefuzz]

What is it that I’m hearing in my tube preamp and tubed headphone amp

That, my friend, is the sound of gullibility. With a little hint of distortion.

 

[Jim Taylor]

Tubes are usually like makeup on women ... attractive, but not real.

To explain:
Let's say I go to a jazz club. There's a trio playing that knocks my socks off. I fall in love with them instantly! I happen to notice that in the back there is a recording engineer. Looking around, I see a stereo mic. There is a live recording in progress.
When the recording of that night is put on the market, I'll eagerly buy it. What do you think I want to hear on that recording? Do I want to hear the sound that is the closest approach to the exciting sound that I heard that night, or do I want to hear a version that is like makeup ... possibly attractive, but not accurate?

You choose yours. I'll choose mine.

Jim

 

[Galliardist]

What is it that I’m hearing in my tube preamp and tubed headphone amp that is so romantic, warm, soft around the edges, and smooth, even syrupy sometimes? I’m not talking about hybrid amps or tube buffers. (My headphone amp is an OTL design, my preamp has no transistors in the audio circuit.) Do tubes enhance dynamics? They seem to create a feeling of space and holographic imaging. These qualities make it great for home audio applications. Of course they add distortion but it’s pleasing to the ear. The warm sound of tubes seems perfect for laid back and acoustic music styles like jazz. In my experience, most typical solid state gear can’t perform as well for getting the presentation and emotional impact of music right. Are tubes more musical?

When I hear an actual live musical performance that sounds "so romantic, warm, soft around the edges, and smooth, even syrupy" I'll get back to you.

If you like what you're hearing, fine. But no, tubes aren't more musical, if that's your question.

 

[Doodski]

What is it that I’m hearing in my tube preamp and tubed headphone amp that is so romantic, warm, soft around the edges, and smooth, even syrupy sometimes? I’m not talking about hybrid amps or tube buffers. (My headphone amp is an OTL design, my preamp has no transistors in the audio circuit.) Do tubes enhance dynamics? They seem to create a feeling of space and holographic imaging. These qualities make it great for home audio applications. Of course they add distortion but it’s pleasing to the ear. The warm sound of tubes seems perfect for laid back and acoustic music styles like jazz. In my experience, most typical solid state gear can’t perform as well for getting the presentation and emotional impact of music right. Are tubes more musical?

Best case scenario is a tube amp has no frequency response contouring at the output and will sound the same as a solid state transistorized amp. The other reality is some tube amps have a impedance output variation and that changes the frequency response and colors the sound like using EQ a little bit. If you are sensing smoothing and warmth then the frequency response has been changed by the tube amp and the sound is colored. Either that or it's your imagination.

 

[coonmanx]

Beans are the musical fruit so of course they are more musical...

 

[Old_School_Brad]

It seems they sound more musical to you. And if you're satisfied with how they sound, that's what really matters.
You seem to understand the technical differences that explains the sound, and are not making any outrageous claims.
Enjoy the music!

 

[Soandso]

I recall a tube amp designer's opinion that the peculiarities of the old transformer he uses is responsible for a significant part of the better impression his limited production imparts to listeners. I know of another amp builder who buys up a specific make of old transformers for one of his amp designs. Neither goes for tube rolling, just specific tube choices for their respective design parameters.

 

[majingotan]

What is it that I’m hearing in my tube preamp and tubed headphone amp that is so romantic, warm, soft around the edges, and smooth, even syrupy sometimes? I’m not talking about hybrid amps or tube buffers. (My headphone amp is an OTL design, my preamp has no transistors in the audio circuit.) Do tubes enhance dynamics? They seem to create a feeling of space and holographic imaging. These qualities make it great for home audio applications. Of course they add distortion but it’s pleasing to the ear. The warm sound of tubes seems perfect for laid back and acoustic music styles like jazz. In my experience, most typical solid state gear can’t perform as well for getting the presentation and emotional impact of music right. Are tubes more musical?

SMSL DL200 -> Antique Sound Lab MG-Head OTL Mark III -> DT 990 - 600 ohm

Your DT990 600 has uneven impedance/frequency graph:

Assuming your OTL amp has 90 ohm output impedance (a common value for a lot of OTL headphone amps on the market), that explains the extra warmth, slam that you experience with the DT990. No magic tubes involved, just impedance matching to FR relationship

BTW, I build my own tube amp and mine is transformer coupled on a cathode follower so its output impedance is only 5 ohms As such, most headphones won't get an altered FR through this tube amp BTW

 

[Waxx]

Tube amps colours the sound in a way many like, by adding harmonic distortion. They sound nice, but are technical inferior to modern amps. I have and use a tube amp also in one of my setups. The sound is softer and warmer subjectivly, but that is due to the distortion that smooth out transients. Due to the low damping tube amps tend to alter the speaker frequency curve to a more bassy sound with a lot of speakers, altough that is mostly subtile.

To know if it's for you, you need to hear a good tube amp and compare it to a modern amp. Some will like it, some not. But it's certainly not the magic bullet that solves everything...

 

[xray]

so romantic, warm, soft around the edges, and smooth, even syrupy sometimes

Kind of like soft focused portraits that have gone through a smoothing filter in post processing and maybe some selective colour boosting. The resulting photo may be pleasing but nowhere representative of the real thing. When it comes to music I'll take the real thing every time.

 

[Chr1]

I like to listen to both personally.

Kinda like having your cake and eating it.
(Variety being the spice of life, and all that.)

It's a hobby, so why not?...

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Are tubes more musical?

No. They can't be.

A tube is just a three-terminal device that can be placed in a number of different circuit designs that can enable gain (output voltage a multiple of input voltage) or act as a buffer etc.

All 3-terminal devices of this nature (tube, BJT, FET), have a domain in which they are almost totally linear (output is a predictable ratio of input). If the circuit design ensures they stay within that nearly perfect linear domain, there will be no musical differences between the three types.

If the circuit design allows the 3-terminal device to operate outside its substantially linear domain (and no NFB is used to minimize artefacts) then there may be differences between the device types. They will distort.

It seems to me that you are hearing distortion and liking it.

 

[Purité Audio]

Keith

 

[Purité Audio]

Valves always look attractive, particularly when they are in somebody else’s system.
Keith

 

[sergeauckland]

Back in the 1960s, I used valves as they were more reliable than early SS amps, and even technically, were generally better. By the early1970s, with the availability of complementary output transistors, I went SS, and still do in my main system. However, the visual attractiveness of glowing valves recently made me build a pair of GEC 912+, and to repair/restore a pair of Quad IIs for use in my desktop study system, driving JR149 'speakers. At the level I play at there, 1-2 watts at most, the valve amps work well within their capabilities, even with the poor transformers used in the 912s, so I haven't sacrificed audible performance, and get the pleasure of the glowing valves to look at.

I suggest that in most cases, that's what valves do, they look nice, with performance that doesn't perform audibly badly against SS. After all, once distortion is below 1%, it really doesn't matter if it's 0.01% or 0.001%, it's all inaudible.

S

 

[Wesseling Audio Lab]

I really liked her characteristics at the beginning but over time have grown tired of them

I'd be interested to know if you still like tubes in a year or so from now!