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What are some euphonic/musical headphones I can buy now (that goes with tube amps well)?

kandamrgam

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Very new to hi-fi, trying to make my first high end purchase. Let me explain what I mean by euphonic/musical.

From what I understand based on my readings is, broadly speaking, on one end there is clinical, studio, reference, analytical headphones that are neutral and accurate in nature. These headphones are very detailed and reproduce music faithfully which will highlight the good and bad of the source recording. Usually models from Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Sony, Audeze etc. are what I see most suggested.

But I am interested in what is on the other side of the spectrum. What are among the best headphones that are best described:
  • musical, smooth, colored, analog like, warm, rich, milky, lush, pleasing, enjoyable, you get the idea
  • need not strictly adhere to any particular curve (flat, harman or V)
  • very forgiving even if source has imperfections
  • rolled-off highs for non-fatiguing trebles
  • pairs well with R2R DACs / tube amps
Hope the idea is clear. Or am I speaking complete nonsense?

Past experience: I have absolutely no experience in high-end or audiophile range gears, the two highest end I have used are Sony WH-1000XM3 (ear buds, 300 USD roughly) and Drop + THX Panda (wireless closed back headphone, 400 USD). I am going for something really good for maximum wow factor :)

Budget: 3K including amp (or DAC/amp), so I guess headphone budget is 2k. But if something is exceptionally good I am willing to stretch up to 6k, but no more than that.

Bonus: Does it make sense to pair R2R DACs with tube Amp? Or is R2R is essentially pointless if I am going for a tube Amp?
 
Very new to hi-fi, trying to make my first high end purchase. Let me explain what I mean by euphonic/musical.

From what I understand based on my readings is, broadly speaking, on one end there is clinical, studio, reference, analytical headphones that are neutral and accurate in nature. These headphones are very detailed and reproduce music faithfully which will highlight the good and bad of the source recording. Usually models from Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Sony, Audeze etc. are what I see most suggested.

But I am interested in what is on the other side of the spectrum. What are among the best headphones that are best described:
  • musical, smooth, colored, analog like, warm, rich, milky, lush, pleasing, enjoyable, you get the idea
  • need not strictly adhere to any particular curve (flat, harman or V)
  • very forgiving even if source has imperfections
  • rolled-off highs for non-fatiguing trebles
  • pairs well with R2R DACs / tube amps
Hope the idea is clear. Or am I speaking complete nonsense?

Past experience: I have absolutely no experience in high-end or audiophile range gears, the two highest end I have used are Sony WH-1000XM3 (ear buds, 300 USD roughly) and Drop + THX Panda (wireless closed back headphone, 400 USD). I am going for something really good for maximum wow factor :)

Budget: 3K including amp (or DAC/amp), so I guess headphone budget is 2k. But if something is exceptionally good I am willing to stretch up to 6k, but no more than that.

Bonus: Does it make sense to pair R2R DACs with tube Amp? Or is R2R is essentially pointless if I am going for a tube Amp?
Sounds to me like you just need to explore EQ. Whether or not you decide to buy more expensive headphones you'll be using EQ anyway so might as well start there and that way if you get a new pair and find you can "EQ away" the difference (between them and your current pair) you can quickly return them and it won't have cost you anything.
 
I'm not gong to attempt recommendations...

You shouldn't have to "match" an amp & headphone, but headphone sensitivity varies..

The amp just needs enough output voltage and the ability to drive the headphone impedance. You generally just want a headphone amp with no audible noise* and enough power-voltage to drive your headphones as loud as you want to listen.

The main "feature" of tube amps is that tubes are outdated and it's more expensive to build a good tube amp. ;)

Most DACs don't have any particular "sound" either.

On the other hand, different speakers or different headphones ALWAYS sound different (better or worse).

There is no reason to get a tube amp unless a particular amp has particular "euphonic" distortion that you like. Any GOOD amp (tube or solid state) will simply amplify with no particular sound of its own, unless it's overdriven into distortion.

If you DO want a tube amp with distortion it will sound different than other amps so you need to listen to decide if you like the particular distortion of a particular amplifier. Most tube preamps or tube headphone amps won't have audible distortion (unless over-driven). It's more difficult and more expensive to make a tube power amp (for speakers) without distortion, but MacIntosh has been doing it since the original tube days.

99% of headphone sound is frequency response and you mostly can tweak that with EQ. The big exception is that sometimes the bass is weak and you can't boost it without driving the headphone or amp into distortion.

With headphones, there is almost no correlation between price and sound quality. Your favorite headphone probably won't be the most expensive.

euphonic/musical...

...From what I understand based on my readings is, broadly speaking, on one end there is clinical, studio, reference, analytical headphones...
None of those "nonsense audiophile words" have any scientific or agreed-upon meanings. ;)

need not strictly adhere to any particular curve (flat, harman or V)
That's fine, but like I said, the frequency response is the main thing.

very forgiving even if source has imperfections
I'm not sure what that means either. I guess it depends on the imperfections, but if they change "bad recordings' they will change good recordings in the same way and you might not want that. EQ is probably better. Of course you can use different EQ on different recordings. Or if you have digital recordings you can tweak/edit the bad recordings with Audacity (or other audio editor). But there are lots of defects that can't be fixed with editing or by choosing different speakers/headphones. There's only so-much you can do with a bad recording. :(

rolled-off highs for non-fatiguing trebles
Fatigue is psychology. What fatigues you may not fatigue another person. But, you could choose a headphone with rolled-off highs, or use EQ.

Budget: 3K including amp (or DAC/amp), so I guess headphone budget is 2k. But if something is exceptionally good I am willing to stretch up to 6k, but no more than that.
You probably don't need to spend that much. If possible, I recommend that you go to an audio/video store and listen for yourself.

Bonus: Does it make sense to pair R2R DACs with tube Amp? Or is R2R is essentially pointless if I am going for a tube Amp?
BOTH are likely to add cost with no audible benefit.

See Audiophoolery to learn about the (few) REAL characteristics of sound quality.





* Noise (hum, hiss, or whine) isn't generally a problem but of course a more sensitive headphone will make any noise more noticeable.
 
  • musical, smooth, colored, analog like, warm, rich, milky, lush, pleasing, enjoyable, you get the idea
  • need not strictly adhere to any particular curve (flat, harman or V)
  • very forgiving even if source has imperfections
  • rolled-off highs for non-fatiguing trebles
  • pairs well with R2R DACs / tube amps
You are asking for something that is not neutral and using a tube amp will likely add a whole bunch of harmonic distortion. This may well produce a sound you enjoy, but the issue is, that using your hardware for "effects" means it's baked in and you're stuck with it; it will add it's flavour/character to everything.

You may find it works really well with some music/genres, but with others it will have a negative effect.

What will you be using as a source, streamer, PC, laptop, etc.?
 
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  • musical, smooth, colored, analog like, warm, rich, milky, lush, pleasing, enjoyable, you get the idea
  • need not strictly adhere to any particular curve (flat, harman or V)
  • very forgiving even if source has imperfections
  • rolled-off highs for non-fatiguing trebles
  • pairs well with R2R DACs / tube amps
You are asking for something that is not neutral and using a tube amp will likely add a whole bunch of harmonic distortion. This may well produce a sound you enjoy, but the issue is, that using your hardware for "effects" means it's baked and you're stuck with it; it will add it's flavour/character to everything.

You may find it works really well with some music/genres, but with others it will have a negative effect.

What will you be using as a source, streamer, PC, laptop, etc.?

Just PC.
 
All those "tonality" words you have used are basically frequency response.

Just get a good accurate set of 'phones, and use EQ to adapt the sound to your described preference.
 
At this point I'm going to recommend the best (as in most neutral) headphones and DAC/headphone amp you can afford, and then using some software for playback that can use VST plugins. Either audio players with plugin support, or free DAWs or wave editors.

There's plenty of free FX plugins out there that can do and simulate anything you want: "tube warmth" (=distortion), exciter effects (=harmonic overtone generators), subharmonic synthesizers (=subbass generators), any type of EQ imaginable, guitar amp simulations, short reverbs for "room" effects, convolution reverbs, multiband compressors, you name it. In any combination - you can chain all these to your heart's content.

Because that's what your descriptions, especially "euphonic" sound like in technical terms: audio effects commonly used in music production.
 

There are a lot of DACs with a headphone amplifier that have excellent performance that come in well under your budget. Here's one of the latest Amir reviewed:

There are so many good options, that it might be easier to think about which features you want, balanced outputs, that sort of thing, in order to narrow down your choices.

There's also a bewildering choice when it comes to headphones. First thing you might consider is whether you want open, or closed back:

I prefer open back headphones; I find closed backs get a bit warm after a while. However, with open backed headphones the sound leaks out, and they also don't block external sound, so they're no good if you want to use them in a room while someone else is watching television, that sort of thing.

I would suggest starting with something fairly neutral, so that you have a reference point. Then you can mess about with EQ and possibly some tube emulation to see if that really is the route you want to go.

Equalizer APO is free: https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

You can also get free tube emulation plug-ins: https://www.musicradar.com/news/12-great-free-and-paid-for-tube-emulation-vst-plugins
 
  • musical, smooth, colored, analog like, warm, rich, milky, lush, pleasing, enjoyable, you get the idea
  • need not strictly adhere to any particular curve (flat, harman or V)
  • very forgiving even if source has imperfections
  • rolled-off highs for non-fatiguing trebles
  • pairs well with R2R DACs / tube amps
I would give a try to the sennheiser hd 650 paired with an OTL amplifier.
 
Hd600/650 is supposed to be very agreeable with tubes so people say. They are iconic and have a very accurate mid range. Many people here own them.

This site is different than most audio sites. The approach here adheres to scientific principles of sound reproduction and audiophile speak isn’t generally supported. Because of that, you can avoid a lot of mystification and learn from some extremely knowledgeable people. You can still like whatever you like, but at least you’ll understand that you like the sound of tube distortion instead of being seduced by audiophile wazaa.
 
I would give a try to the sennheiser hd 650 paired with an OTL amplifier.
Hd600/650 is supposed to be very agreeable with tubes so people say. They are iconic and have a very accurate mid range. Many people here own them.

Yes a combination that was popular is the HD600 or HD650 together with a Bottlehead Crack: https://bottlehead.com/product/crack-1-1-otl-headphone-amplifier-kit/

I used to own a pair of HD650s and was tempted to try one, but never got around to it.

Amir tested the Bottlehead Crack a while back and compared to even some very cheap solid state amps, performance was pretty poor:

An OTL (Output TransformerLess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Output_transformerless) amp requires a headphone with a high impedance, and both the 600 and 650 are quite high at 300ohm. If you use an OTL amp with a low impedance headphone, you get a significant roll off in the bass frequencies:

1735061556764.png


Source: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/otl...dance-matching-question.702109/#post-10211391
 
... faithfully which will highlight the good and bad of the source recording. Usually models from Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Sony, Audeze etc. are what I see most suggested.

But I am interested in what is on the other side of the spectrum.
Simple put, to do it right sometime leaves just one opportunity, for doing it wrong there are all too many ways a lifetime isn't enough to explore.

If You want to realize these astounding expenses, buy a Dan Clark headphone with some resell value for later. It's a unicorn by everlasting excellence rather than from fitting a temporal mood.
 
Yes a combination that was popular is the HD600 or HD650 together with a Bottlehead Crack: https://bottlehead.com/product/crack-1-1-otl-headphone-amplifier-kit/

I used to own a pair of HD650s and was tempted to try one, but never got around to it.

Amir tested the Bottlehead Crack a while back and compared to even some very cheap solid state amps, performance was pretty poor:

An OTL (Output TransformerLess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Output_transformerless) amp requires a headphone with a high impedance, and both the 600 and 650 are quite high at 300ohm. If you use an OTL amp with a low impedance headphone, you get a significant roll off in the bass frequencies:

View attachment 416203

Source: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/otl...dance-matching-question.702109/#post-10211391
The 650's combined with a tube amp can sound very close to what the op is describing as his preferred sound signature...to my ears hd650's sounds like that almost with every source...I would describe them as forgiving with very pleasant roll of of high frequencies and the most lifelike midrange I ever experienced in any headphones I have tried.

They have some negative though too like that the bass is kinda bleeding in to the midrange and that compared to other cans they lack some details and bass.

I never tried the hd600's.
 
The 650's combined with a tube amp can sound very close to what the op is describing as his preferred sound signature...to my ears hd650's sounds like that almost with every source...I would describe them as forgiving with very pleasant roll of of high frequencies and the most lifelike midrange I ever experienced in any headphones I have tried.

They have some negative though too like that the bass is kinda bleeding in to the midrange and that compared to other cans they lack some details and bass.

I never tried the hd600's.

I agree. I liked the HD650s, but I always felt that they were perhaps a bit "polite" and overly "smooth" and I wanted something with a bit more "punch" and "bite".

All subjective nonsense, of course, but I would say that the three over-ear headphones I currently have, achieve that. They retain the qualities I liked about the 650s, but are a bit more "exciting".

I never got around to trying a tube amp, but as I now understand it, a well designed tube amp will likely sound the same as a solid state amp, that is, it will have a flat frequency response and a limited amount of noise and distortion. Where tube amps do sound "different" to solid state amps, it's because they don't have a flat frequency response, or they have significant amounts of distortion, either of which may sound pleasant, but ultimately are inaccuracies.

These inaccuracies of tube amps can be replicated digitally, with EQ and effects, which would allow you to experiment. Whereas, with an inaccurate tube amp, your stuck with whatever particular inaccuracies it has; you can't adjust it's frequency response, or reduce it's distortion.
 
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I can only hope it works. But I've got some time to just give it a try.

Before spending all money on an decidedly off-center solution, I personally would prototype it in a more systematic way. Buying a Fossi DS2 (USB-C to analog power out) and some, just saying, Sennheiser HD58X, learning about equalization and other technology behind my personal preferences--could be fun. Cost: well below 250, hence a twentieth (5%) of the max budget, with predictable best resell value on top.

On Win PC Equalizer APO is free of any monetary cost, and the time spent pays back a phantastic profit in knowledge, that will monetarize quickly. To share and discuss equalizer settings may clarify language better than reading those proverbal artsy review poems on/offline.
 
I agree. I liked the HD650s, but I always felt that they were perhaps a bit "polite" and overly "smooth" and I wanted something with a bit more "punch" and "bite".

All subjective nonsense, of course, but I would say that the three over-ear headphones I currently have, achieve that. They retain the qualities I liked about the 650s, but are a bit more "exciting".

I never got around to trying a tube amp, but as I now understand it, a well designed tube amp will likely sound the same as a solid state amp, that is, it will have a flat frequency response and a limited amount of noise and distortion. Where tube amps do sound "different" to solid state amps, it's because they don't have a flat frequency response, or they have significant amounts of distortion, either of which may sound pleasant, but ultimately are inaccuracies.

These inaccuracies of tube amps can be replicated digitally, with EQ and effects, which would allow you to experiment. Whereas, with an inaccurate tube amp, your stuck with whatever particular inaccuracies it has; you can't adjust it's frequency response, or reduce it's distortion.
For what it is worth I have found a worthy replacement for the hd650 in the ndh30...they have a good amount of that midrange and the ''natural'' signature of the 650's but they do not share the same overly smooth and polite character..plus they are more accurate and they do not need a tube amp to give their 100%.

I have tried in the past a vst plugin that was mimicking the sound of a tube preamp (basically adding distortion and changing the right frequencies) but still was not close enough to any tube amplifier i have ever heard..though I don't have much experience with tube stuff.

I would like in the future to add a cheap tube amp in my chain just to play around...like a schiit vali or a valhalla, feliks audio entry stuff etc. The good thing with headphones is that you can have lots of sound signatures on the spot for less money that building a system with speakers, room treatment and all the rest.
 
Headphone response and preference varies so much it's impossible to give a good recommendation for "out of the box" response with a budget as healthy as yours. Pretty much any headphone worth buying is inside your budget.

My advice: get some truthear zero reds ($25) and listen to them for a while to get a sense of what industry-standard "neutral" sound is like. Don't be turned off by the low price, their frequency response is pretty dead on.

Then go out and listen to as many nice headphones as you can in shops or at shows. With some "stock neutral" listening under your belt you can judge higher priced headphones against that more easily.

Unfortunately there is such a thing as "synergy" between one's unique head / ear anatomy and the specifics of a given headphone's response, so there's no substitute for demos and/or EQ.
 
Very new to hi-fi, trying to make my first high end purchase. Let me explain what I mean by euphonic/musical.

From what I understand based on my readings is, broadly speaking, on one end there is clinical, studio, reference, analytical headphones that are neutral and accurate in nature. These headphones are very detailed and reproduce music faithfully which will highlight the good and bad of the source recording. Usually models from Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Sony, Audeze etc. are what I see most suggested.

But I am interested in what is on the other side of the spectrum. What are among the best headphones that are best described:
  • musical, smooth, colored, analog like, warm, rich, milky, lush, pleasing, enjoyable, you get the idea
  • need not strictly adhere to any particular curve (flat, harman or V)
  • very forgiving even if source has imperfections
  • rolled-off highs for non-fatiguing trebles
  • pairs well with R2R DACs / tube amps
Hope the idea is clear. Or am I speaking complete nonsense?

Past experience: I have absolutely no experience in high-end or audiophile range gears, the two highest end I have used are Sony WH-1000XM3 (ear buds, 300 USD roughly) and Drop + THX Panda (wireless closed back headphone, 400 USD). I am going for something really good for maximum wow factor :)

Budget: 3K including amp (or DAC/amp), so I guess headphone budget is 2k. But if something is exceptionally good I am willing to stretch up to 6k, but no more than that.

Bonus: Does it make sense to pair R2R DACs with tube Amp? Or is R2R is essentially pointless if I am going for a tube Amp?
i know exactly what you mean, get a adv model 3 ba2 like me.
 
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