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Anedio D2 measurements and specs correct?

JustIntonation

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I've just bought a second hand Anedio D2 through Ebay.
The D2 came out in late 2012 and has an ES9018 DAC chip (full version not mobile).
The Anedio company was based in the United States and ceased to exist about a year ago. They used to publish a lot of measurements and seemed like a company which took their DAC design serious yet aimed for a reasonable price. The D2 used to sell for $1500 which was later reduced to $1250.

The old Anedio website is still readable through the WayBack Machine, including some of the published measurements.
Their measurements look fantastic. But perhaps too good to be true!
And there's a discrepancy between the measurements and the published THD+N spec.
Their measurements were done with an Audio Precision system and I was wondering if some people here can shed some light on whether these measurments are possibly real or perhaps more likely to be misleading in one way or another.

Measurements can be seen here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20161206045028/http://www.anedio.com:80/index.php/product/d2_measure
And they come with the following footnote:
"All measurements are performed using the Audio Precision APx525 system. The line outputs of the D2 DAC were terminated with 100Kohms. Unless otherwise indicated, FFTs were 64K points, averaged 4 times, with the AP-equiripple window."
I'm not familiar with the effects of certain settings of the measurement system other than what's published by Amirm, perhaps the above settings can give results which seem nicer but can't be directly compared to the measurements by Amirm?

The discrepancy I found is that for instance the "FFT Spetrum @ 0dBFS" shows all harmonics below -120dB! Not only is this amazing, but the specifications of the D2 DAC state a THD+N of 0.0003% (https://web.archive.org/web/20161206022157/http://www.anedio.com:80/index.php/product/d2_specs) which translates to a THD+N of about -110dB.
Is it indeed possible that for instance the type of measurement and FFT window size and averaging produce for instance about 7dB better measurements and adding the harmonic distortion and noise add another 3dB so the THD+N is not in true contradiction?

Have no real doubt that this is a well designed DAC with a very good neutral headphone amp for the price that I paid. But still I'm curious about the above :)
 

DonH56

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To get THD+N you "add up" (actually typically RSS) the harmonics and noise. When you do that, the result is a number higher than the noise floor. If you have a bunch of spikes at -120 dB and "add them all up" the result is not -120 dB but something higher. With a clean output 10 dB between the noise floor and SINAD (THD+N) values seems not unreasonable.
 
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JustIntonation

JustIntonation

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To get THD+N you "add up" (actually typically RSS) the harmonics and noise. When you do that, the result is a number higher than the noise floor. If you have a bunch of spikes at -120 dB and "add them all up" the result is not -120 dB but something higher. With a clean output 10 dB between the noise floor and SINAD (THD+N) values seems not unreasonable.

Ah yes you're right. I see now when comparing it to the OPPO measurements on this site. There is indeed roughly a 10dB difference between the strongest harmonic and the SINAD. I mistakenly thought it was usually much less.
Thanks! Specs and measurements look trustworthy then.
 

DonH56

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If the harmonics are well above the noise floor, then they may dominate, so the answer is, as usual, "it depends". :)
 
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JustIntonation

JustIntonation

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If the harmonics are well above the noise floor, then they may dominate, so the answer is, as usual, "it depends". :)
Noise and loudest harmonic are at about the same level it seems.
From specs: Signal to noise ratio. 123dB unbalanced outputs, 126dB balanced outputs.
From measurements: the 3rd harmonic is the loudest at about -122 or -123dB. (averaged 4 times with the AP-equiripple window, don't know what that means)

I can imagine averaging in the harmonic distortion measurement giving a slightly better result than a bare THD+N measurement which probably takes the highest peak of anything that is not the signal or something in that direction.
Having compared it a bit closer to measurements on this site after your message the measurements and specs of the D2 look fine to me now.
Should be getting a great DAC and headphone amp used for about the price of a DX7S here in Europe. Happy with my choice measurement wise :)
 
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JustIntonation

JustIntonation

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Subjective review of the D2:
Absolutely sure this is the best DAC and headphone amp I've ever heard.
Surprisingly I don't find it slightly bright or analytical at all as it's sometimes described. I can't really put a sound signature to it (yet).
Noticeable to me are the complete lack of any trebble "glare", absolutely perfect imaging / focus / soundstage, and a much clearer distinction of sound signature of downstream equipment (speaker amps, speakers and headphones) and the most transparent see through mids I've ever heard by far.
A lot of music sounds properly "big" or even huge through this DAC. And in addition I find I have a tendency to turn the volume up way more than I used to, I think because there's no harshness or anything of that kind introduced by the DAC.
Best buy ever for me.
Btw, the difference between the D2 and the SMSL M8A v3 is so big that I now think my M8A v3 (ES9038Q2M) has some very serious flaws, it is a very bright tiny sounding DAC in comparison. Perhaps worth measuring the M8A v3 as I highly suspect it will not measure as good as the M8A v1 did (and if it does then there's something very important missing in the measurements imho)
Oh and the headphone amp is even more by far the best I've heard, I've apparently never heard a headphone amp without serious flaws before.. The SAP-12 for instance is a complete joke compared to this one, muddy warm messed up imaging etc. The D2 headphone amp displays the DAC transparently, has plenty of power for me and I think its very low impedance (0.035 Ohm) compared to the usual 10 Ohm of many budget headphone amps helps tame resonance peaks of at least the drivers of my 250 Ohm Beyerdynamic DT1990. Still have to EQ it but its most annoying resonance peak around 8kHz is somehow lessened / has audibly less energy. (didn't think it would make a difference but the difference is indeed audible and can't think of any other more likely reason for it)
 
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JustIntonation

JustIntonation

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Good to hear. How much did you pay for it anyway?
Paid about US$620 for it without shipping (shipping added $62 from US to Netherlands with USPS). Including some fancy power cable and a remote. Unit looks like new.
Had to get a 230 to 115V AC transformer though which cost me another 30 euro for a good one with enough reserve power (80W, the D2 is 7W).
Got new drivers for Windows 10 from the archived website which work fine including ASIO.
So I'm happy :) Unless it ever breaks down then I have no idea how to get it fixed as Anedio is no longer there, keeping fingers crossed that won't happen.
 
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maxxevv

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Had the chance to try out the D2 once.
Have to say its a very 'clean' sounding DAC Amp. No clear and obvious coloration (if there was any). Great resolution and dynamics from what I tried on a HD800s.

Only thing that was really missing is some updated firmware for things like newer file formats.

But it takes about 15~30 minutes to completely warm up and stabilise its output as I was told at the session. Which is a fair time in my opinion compared to some ludicrous multi-hour claims considering that its solid state hardware.

BTW, that's a great price you got it at!
 

Sal1950

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Subjective review of the D2:
Absolutely sure this is the best DAC and headphone amp I've ever heard.
Lots of fancy prose in that review.
Would you bet any cash that you could reliably identify it in a bias controlled blind listening test against the $500 Topping DX7s?
 
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JustIntonation

JustIntonation

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Lots of fancy prose in that review.
Would you bet any cash that you could reliably identify it in a bias controlled blind listening test against the $500 Topping DX7s?
I've never heard the Topping DX7s so I would not bet any cash.
I would bet a large sum that I can reliable identify it (edit: with "it" I meant the Anedio D2) compared to the recent DACs I've heard past month. SMSL M8A v3, the Sabaj D4, Melokin DA1 and my HP Probook output.
 
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Krunok

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I've never heard the Topping DX7s so I would not bet any cash.
I would bet a large sum that I can reliable identify it compared to the recent DACs I've heard past month. SMSL M8A v3, the Sabaj D4, Melokin DA1 and my HP Probook output.

Another Superman! Keep away from the Lex Luthor and the kryptonite! ;)
 

Wombat

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JustIntonation

JustIntonation

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Another Superman! Keep away from the Lex Luthor and the kryptonite! ;)
Don't have to be a superman for this.
Sabaj D4 has a clearly audible midbass bump of about 2dB or so on headphones. That's the most audible deviation for me besides many other things.
The Melokin has imaging problems which are clearly audible I can pick it out with headphones easily now I know what to focus on and which songs show it clearly.
The SMSL M8A v3 is bright / lacking in bass.
This is not superman behavior, all very audible things compared to the D2.

edit, btw all these things are backed up by measurements. See Melokin DA1 measurements on this website, search google for Sabaj D4 measurements and find a Russian site and look at response with dynamic headphones, look at Wayback Machine archive for Anedio.com for D2 measurements, and only the SMSL M8A v3 has no measurements available to my knowledge other than manufacturer specs of 0.0003% THD+N (interestingly they do not list frequency response deviation)
 
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Wombat

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Don't have to be a superman for this.
Sabaj D4 has a clearly audible midbass bump of about 2dB or so on headphones. That's the most audible deviation for me besides many other things.
The Melokin has imaging problems which are clearly audible I can pick it out with headphones easily now I know what to focus on and which songs show it clearly.
The SMSL M8A v3 is bright / lacking in bass.
This is not superman behavior, all very audible things compared to the D2.

edit, btw all these things are backed up by measurements. See Melokin DA1 measurements on this website, search google for Sabaj D4 measurements and find a Russian site and look at response with dynamic headphones, look at Wayback Machine archive for Anedio.com for D2 measurements, and only the SMSL M8A v3 has no measurements available to my knowledge other than manufacturer specs of 0.0003% THD+N (interestingly they do not list frequency response deviation)

Maybe it is the headphones?
 
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