Amp for Reference 1 Metas

[Melodic]

Hello, all! I just lucked out and got a demo pair of KEF Reference 1 Meta for a mere 2700 dollars (Magnolia for the win!). They sounded great even in the shoddy showroom and I excitedly purchased them, but the hard reality is that the only amp I have is a cheap, possibly somewhat broken, Yamaha one. I have a budget of about 700 dollars. I will be hooking these up to my tv, but not multichannel, besides maybe subs and a center if a well measuring Avr is within my budget (Earc would be fantastic). I already have a Schiit dac. What are your recommendations?

Edit: Edited out a redundancy.

 

[GXAlan]

Congrats on a great find.

I will advise you to get an amp with good speaker protection. $700 isn’t a lot of money.

I would get a used TMR Audio Arcam FMJ SR250. The ARC (not eARC) is decent but the CEC control isn’t that good.

But you get good Class G amplification, full range Dirac, and it’s in your price point.

The SINAD is plenty for transparency and the “not running out of power” and “Dirac” full range included pretty much trump everything.

If you don’t need Dirac, you also get Dolby Volume. Sadly, no Dirac and Dolby Volume.

The newer SA30 doesn’t have the same Atmos downmixing capability.

Take a look at Stereophile’s review and I show its HDMI measurements.

 

[Melodic]

Congrats on a great find.

I will advise you to get an amp with good speaker protection. $700 isn’t a lot of money.

I would get a used TMR Audio Arcam FMJ SR250. The ARC (not eARC) is decent but the CEC control isn’t that good.

But you get good Class G amplification, full range Dirac, and it’s in your price point.

The SINAD is plenty for transparency and the “not running out of power” and “Dirac” full range included pretty much trump everything.

If you don’t need Dirac, you also get Dolby Volume. Sadly, no Dirac and Dolby Volume.

The newer SA30 doesn’t have the same Atmos downmixing capability.

Take a look at Stereophile’s review and I show its HDMI measurements.

Thanks for responding! Do the TMR or SA30 have the speaker protection that you are talking about? I hadn't thought about that kind of thing, but I can see it being pretty important and I like the idea of Dirac. You may be right about the amount of money, though. I could maybe stretch up to 1200ish. Do you think that that might be more up to snuff?

 

[GXAlan]

Thanks for responding! Do the TMR or SA30 have the speaker protection that you are talking about? I hadn't thought about that kind of thing, but I can see it being pretty important and I like the idea of Dirac. You may be right about the amount of money, though. I could maybe stretch up to 1200ish. Do you think that that might be more up to snuff?

TMR is just a retailer of used gear (but you have a return window). They are Arcam products.

Most mainstream companies have good speaker protection.

It may be worth seeing how the new JBL AVRs perform.

 

[Melodic]

TMR is just a retailer of used gear (but you have a return window). They are Arcam products.

Most mainstream companies have good speaker protection.

It may be worth seeing how the new JBL AVRs perform.

Thanks! I'll look into JBLs! Otherwise, I might go for the Arcams.

 

[Melodic]

TMR is just a retailer of used gear (but you have a return window). They are Arcam products.

Most mainstream companies have good speaker protection.

It may be worth seeing how the new JBL AVRs perform.

I just realized that I have another question. The spec sheet for the ref 1 meta shows them as 4 ohms, but with a minimum of 3.2. Will a normal 4 ohm amp/avr work or do I need something with 3 ohms? I'm assuming that 4 is fine, but I wouldn't want to mess this up.

 

[GXAlan]

I just realized that I have another question. The spec sheet for the ref 1 meta shows them as 4 ohms, but with a minimum of 3.2. Will a normal 4 ohm amp/avr work or do I need something with 3 ohms? I'm assuming that 4 is fine, but I wouldn't want to mess this up.

Nothing will advertise 3 ohms, but the old THX certification ensured that amplifiers were stable to 3 ohms.

In my mind, any modern AVR with Dirac will be 3.2 ohm stable.

I would sit tight and wait for Amir’s review of the new JBLs which seem to be pretty affordable. We should get a review soon!

 

[Melodic]

Nothing will advertise 3 ohms, but the old THX certification ensured that amplifiers were stable to 3 ohms.

In my mind, any modern AVR with Dirac will be 3.2 ohm stable.

I would sit tight and wait for Amir’s review of the new JBLs which seem to be pretty affordable. We should get a review soon!

Thanks! I will!

 

[Steven Holt]

I know you're giddy with excitement, but settle down. I took a look at those speakers. They are 9K new, you paid less than 3K, over 66 pct off. My advice, don't buy ANYTHING for at least 30 days till you're sure they are defect-free. In the meantime, save your money for a high quality amp deserving of these speakers. This is just me, but I wouldn't buy anything less than the Rotel A14 or the Yamaha AS 1200. Our membership may have better recommendations.

 

[AnalogSteph]

but the hard reality is that the only amp I have is a cheap, possibly somewhat broken, Yamaha one.

Please elaborate.

I have a budget of about 700 dollars.

Should be plenty, even without resorting to the used market. You could do worse than sticking with Yamaha... what does an A-S701 cost in your neck of the woods? (That's arguably a better performer than some of their higher-end models.)

I already have a Schiit dac.

Which one in particular?

 

[Melodic]

I know you're giddy with excitement, but settle down. I took a look at those speakers. They are 9K new, you paid less than 3K, over 66 pct off. My advice, don't buy ANYTHING for at least 30 days till you're sure they are defect-free. In the meantime, save your money for a high quality amp deserving of these speakers. This is just me, but I wouldn't buy anything less than the Rotel A14 or the Yamaha AS 1200. Our membership may have better recommendations.

The nice thing is that because I got them from bestbuy I still have the Kef warranty. If something goes wrong I'm covered with that and possibly my total-tech membership. Still, I'll be careful and calculated. Thanks!

 

[Melodic]

Please elaborate.

Should be plenty, even without resorting to the used market. You could do worse than sticking with Yamaha... what does an A-S701 cost in your neck of the woods? (That's arguably a better performer than some of their higher-end models.)

Which one in particular?

You bring up good point about the Yamaha. I actually don't remember what was wrong with it. It's been a few years, but I remember being very frustrated by it. To answer your question about the dac it is a Modius. The Yamaha you are suggesting costs about 600 on one site that I found. On crutchfield about 800. That is definitely in my price range either way. Would you say that it competes well with the Arkam that GXAlan suggested? What about the new class-D recievers that he suggested? Those look really good too.

 

[GXAlan]

The nice thing about the SR250 is that it has a good amount of power.

Arcam FMJ SR250 stereo A/V receiver Measurements

Sidebar 4: Measurements I measured the Arcam FMJ SR250 with my Audio Precision SYS2722 system (see the January 2008 "As We See It"). Before performing any tests, I ran it at 40Wpc into 8 ohms for an hour. At the end of that time, the louvers on the top panel were warm, at 110.6°F (43.7°C).

www.stereophile.com

“At 1% THD+N, our usual definition of clipping, the SR250 exceeded the specifications, delivering 165Wpc into 8 ohms (22dBW) and 250Wpc into 4 ohms (21dBW)”

It doesn’t have the latest DAC or 8K support, nor is it the cleanest measuring, but it is not going to be audible (whereas running out of power will).

It DOES have full range Dirac, Dolby Atmos and DTS decoding (even though it’s 2 ch).

Something like the MiniDSP SHD Power is 2x the cost and a poor amplifier even if the DAC is better.

Something like the Onkyo RZ50 goes into the silly protect mode and you run out of power.

i have been pretty strict at $750. Sadly they had TWO units that were used when i posted, and they both have sold….

 

[AnalogSteph]

Level requirements alongside listening distance and deadness of the room are going to be a major factor in how much power is needed. The Ref 1 Metas are a moderately sensitive speaker (85 dB / 2.83 V is quite low for a 4 ohm) that can take quite a beating - they hold up remarkably well at 102 dB SPL and are specified to a whopping 111 dB peak (which, however, might be for the pair, as that would require almost 800 W otherwise). If we are going for 103 dB SPL @ 1 m each, then you'd want about 126 W into 4 ohms. Minimum. KEF themselves recommend 50-200 W.

 

[Melodic]

The nice thing about the SR250 is that it has a good amount of power.

Arcam FMJ SR250 stereo A/V receiver Measurements

Sidebar 4: Measurements I measured the Arcam FMJ SR250 with my Audio Precision SYS2722 system (see the January 2008 "As We See It"). Before performing any tests, I ran it at 40Wpc into 8 ohms for an hour. At the end of that time, the louvers on the top panel were warm, at 110.6°F (43.7°C).

www.stereophile.com

“At 1% THD+N, our usual definition of clipping, the SR250 exceeded the specifications, delivering 165Wpc into 8 ohms (22dBW) and 250Wpc into 4 ohms (21dBW)”

It doesn’t have the latest DAC or 8K support, nor is it the cleanest measuring, but it is not going to be audible (whereas running out of power will).

It DOES have full range Dirac, Dolby Atmos and DTS decoding (even though it’s 2 ch).

Something like the MiniDSP SHD Power is 2x the cost and a poor amplifier even if the DAC is better.

Something like the Onkyo RZ50 goes into the silly protect mode and you run out of power.

i have been pretty strict at $750. Sadly they had TWO units that were used when i posted, and they both have sold….

I see. I agree with you about the audibility. Dacs are so good at this point that I doubt it matters much beyond enjoying having the best and with 700 dollars that's probably not reasonable.

 

[Melodic]

Level requirements alongside listening distance and deadness of the room are going to be a major factor in how much power is needed. The Ref 1 Metas are a moderately sensitive speaker (85 dB / 2.83 V is quite low for a 4 ohm) that can take quite a beating - they hold up remarkably well at 102 dB SPL and are specified to a whopping 111 dB peak (which, however, might be for the pair, as that would require almost 800 W otherwise). If we are going for 103 dB SPL @ 1 m each, then you'd want about 126 W into 4 ohms. Minimum. KEF themselves recommend 50-200 W.

I'm glad that you pointed that out about the needing about 126 W. The Kef specs make it seem like less would get you by, though I was definitely wanting at least 150ish.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

You could look a Fosi V3 Mono's which will set you back all of $280 and will give you 200 WPC at 4 ohms. Don't let the low price fool you, they will do the Reference 1 Metas proud. Amplifiers and Dacs have become like watches. You can pay $30 k for a Rolex Daytona or $30 for a Casio. Each will keep perfect time, but one is a status symbol.

Amps are never status symbols. But if you want absolute reference levels, something like one of the Purif Eval 1's sold by Buckeye sound for around $1k will fill that bill. I personally have a Purifi Eval 1 built form kit parts that I use to power my Ls 50 Meta, and its flawless.

 

[Melodic]

You could look a Fosi V3 Mono's which will set you back all of $280 and will give you 200 WPC at 4 ohms. Don't let the low price fool you, amplifiers have become like watches. You can pay $30 k for a Rolex Daytona or $30 for a Casio. Each will keep perfect time, but one is a status symbol.

Amps are never status symbols. But if you want absolute reference levels, something like one of the Purif Eval 1's sold by Buckeye sound for around $1k will fill that bill. I personally have a Purifi Eval 1 built form kit parts that I use to power my Ls 50 Meta, and its flawless.

Thanks. I'll look into those!

 

[Melodic]

You could look a Fosi V3 Mono's which will set you back all of $280 and will give you 200 WPC at 4 ohms. Don't let the low price fool you, they will do the Reference 1 Metas proud. Amplifiers and Dacs have become like watches. You can pay $30 k for a Rolex Daytona or $30 for a Casio. Each will keep perfect time, but one is a status symbol.

Amps are never status symbols. But if you want absolute reference levels, something like one of the Purif Eval 1's sold by Buckeye sound for around $1k will fill that bill. I personally have a Purifi Eval 1 built form kit parts that I use to power my Ls 50 Meta, and its flawless.

Hey, again. After looking at everyone’s recommendations I think that I’ve decided on the Fosi V3s. My question is how would those work with my Schiit Modius. I’m guessing the chain would be tv to dac to mono L/R to Speakers. Is this correct? I’m sorry if these seem very obvious, but I really am pretty new to this stuff. Thanks!

 

[jeffaegrim]

Hey, again. After looking at everyone’s recommendations I think that I’ve decided on the Fosi V3s. My question is how would those work with my Schiit Modius. I’m guessing the chain would be tv to dac to mono L/R to Speakers. Is this correct? I’m sorry if these seem very obvious, but I really am pretty new to this stuff. Thanks!

You got it. Using the outputs on the Modius (either XLR or RCA will work for the V3s, but XLR is preferable and you have that possibility; although you might need an XLR to TRS cable to make the connection) you route the L/R Signal to your V3s and from them to your speakers.

If I’m understanding your setup correctly, your only way of adjusting volume would be upstream on your TV. I’d maybe think of implementing some measure that would ensure that you don’t accidentally have your TV volume at 100 when you don’t expect it.

Consider getting a measurement Mic, doing some measurements of the speakers and implementing some form of DSP next. Good luck!