Amir, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't:

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I'm not sure why you're so confused about my perspective on this. I don't have objections to what Amir is doing and I cannot say this enough. I have objections to the way that many of the users on this forum, but also across the greater HT community, interpret his reviews and attribute audible improvements to inaudible measurements. That's it.

Look, Amir is testing these devices at the limits of their performance to get much of his data and recommendation out. That's fine. I get why that pushes a greater sense of competition in the audio engineering field. But when you have people going around saying that a receiver is "abysmal" when it truly sounds much better than receivers that measure better with any piece of content you can throw at it, I'd say we have a culture problem stemming from the interpretation of these reviews.

All I'm asking is that people are more skeptical to their own understanding of what is occurring, because I rarely see that around here.

Which are these receivers that "truly sound better" than receivers that measure better? And you of course know that we'd want that to be shown in blind testing right?

 

[BDWoody]

All I'm asking is that people are more skeptical to their own understanding of what is occurring, because I rarely see that around here.

We are here because of our skepticism... The industry has lowered expectations to the point where basic engineering competence can't be presumed.

Something can be less than competent and sound great...if that's your only point, we got that before you signed up a couple of months ago...as hard as that seems for you to believe.

If someone who didn't know anything at all about any of these numbers chose based on blind acceptance of Amir's results, do you feel there's a better place to go to make that choice? Some ad copy on Steteophile? Darko?

If it's recommended, you can be quite sure of its fundamental competence. For many of us, that is the threshold of consideration... The fact that you continue to tell us that we are somehow misled, is just displaying a mountain of ignorance.

Have a nice day.

 

[lucretius]

We can call it Sub-Fi.

I suggest Fantasy-Fi

 

[gene_stl]

This forum seems to be getting quite big and I have noted that a lot of new members are either 1) trolls or 2) audiophiles lacking technical background and / or experience to actually understand what it is that is going on here.

It may be that there is needs to be a membership series of circles. A place where if you post that power cables or interconnects are audible or you can hear the difference of two items that both measure below the threshold of audibility, you are categorized as one or two above. If a troll you are eliminated (to reduce the noise level of the forum) and if 2) you are referred to FAQs pages agreed on by most of the membership.

Maybe a loyalty oath too!

 

[BDWoody]

This forum seems to be getting quite big and I have noted that a lot of new members are either 1) trolls or 2) audiophiles lacking technical background and / or experience to actually understand what it is that is going on here.

It may be that there is needs to be a membership series of circles. A place where if you post that power cables or interconnects are audible or you can hear the difference of two items that both measure below the threshold of audibility, you are categorized as one or two above. If a troll you are eliminated (to reduce the noise level of the forum) and if 2) you are referred to FAQs pages agreed on by most of the membership.

Maybe a loyalty oath too!

We do need a kiddie pool...

 

[williamwally]

...But when you have people going around saying that a receiver is "abysmal" when it truly sounds much better than receivers that measure better with any piece of content you can throw at it, I'd say we have a culture problem stemming from the interpretation of these reviews.

All I'm asking is that people are more skeptical to their own understanding of what is occurring, because I rarely see that around here.

Responding to what's bolded: what most would ask here, and what all should ask IMO is, does this actually sound better or is it some kind of expectation bias? It's been shown scientifically on many occasions, that most perceived sound quality differences between well engineered pieces of equipment are just that: perceived. These differences not able to be measured and break down under blind testing.

There are lots of threads here I've seen where people are 'skeptical of their own understanding' and ask for others to help them find out, in a real scientific way, what perceptions may be real or perceived and to try and work to come up with testing that can measure these differences. "The quantification of stereo imaging" thread comes to mind in that respect.

 

[doodlebro]

audiophiles lacking technical background and / or experience to actually understand what it is that is going on here.

Do you realize that this is the exact group of folks I'm calling out in the first place...? I don't put myself off as an expert either.

 

[Dimitri]

But when you have people going around saying that a receiver is "abysmal" when it truly sounds much better than receivers that measure better, I'd say we have a culture problem stemming from the interpretation of these reviews.

All I'm asking is that people are more skeptical to their own understanding of what is occurring, because I rarely see that around here.

"People" parrot, misunderstand, amplify, distort and in general use whatever they hear or read to the extent or limits of their own understanding, imagination, personality disorder or inadequacies.
As for "truly"...if everyone believed the same "truths" the world would be at a in a different state than today, or six, four or two centuries ago.

We do need a kiddie pool...

Or prevent threads about other threads in other forums or about what your friends cousin's neighbor said, blooming like this one has ...

 

[doodlebro]

We do need a kiddie pool...

OK boomer

 

[BDWoody]

OK boomer

One again displaying ignorance when trying to be clever...

Shocked...shocked I tell you...

 

[doodlebro]

One again displaying ignorance when trying to be clever...

Shocked...shocked I tell you...

And what does this comment contribute to the thread...? I was simply meeting you at your level.

 

[amirm]

Time out....