What (most) Chinese manufacturers don't get

[WitheredLeaves]

I am a designer from China (major in ID but now work on UX), you sensitively found the problem. I'd like to say that lack of continuity in ID is not only in Hi-fi zone, but also at the most part of the consumer market. Few Chinese brands and manufacturers value continuous design, or I'd like to say, family style design (or rather, they just cannot do this. The present situation is somehow market's choice, people don't pay attention to this and tend to be attracted by new trends, and the brands just follow market rules). Few Hi-fi brands systematically plan their products, they just follow, or I speak mercilessly, just copy other's well-selling products' design. Most of those brands don't give a f about their brand image or indentity, they just want to quickly catch consumers' eyes and sell more. That's the situation.

 

[Mart68]

This is pretty sexy to me with the dot matrix volume display

View attachment 353733

Make the display red, orange or green and get rid of the ugly open sockets and it's nearly there.
Why can't they put those sockets on the side? Or at least have removable covers on them?

 

[TonyJZX]

my feeling about this basically its largely dictated by dollars?

like for sub $500 i'm less caring about ultimate design... because i can barely get Western designs I like for $500 that's truly... unique? aesthetic?

we're just talking about boxes with buttons and connectors at the end of the day - if its not too horrible then i can live with it

if people go to $1k plus then you get the $1k smsl topping dacs that are nicely built and the soncoz and jungson type 19 x 19 units that also look the part?

but i mean this is a young industry and it seems the chinese dont seem to be too sentimental about 'past glories'

i also feel like economics is almost the deciding factor

i see a LOT of recycled boxes... one day this box is an amp... one day its a dac, one day its a HP amp... i'm also ok with this

i know how much it is to make boxes from scratch and why bother if it works

i also think modern consumerism is less 'sentimental' than you would think... like its all about rapid obsolescence

stuff that is old gets unsaleable and clogs up shelf space quick - look at how quickly phones become obsolete

and i also feel chinese AND western audiences are NOT sentimental about this stuff... to many its just a 'toaster'... its just a washing machine - its gets a job done and when its busted, its chucked

and so to OP why get sentimental about it?

to wit - we buy 'things' to get 'experiences'... its not the 'things' that are important

 

[WitheredLeaves]

For westerners it may be hard to know how fast the consumer electronic products iterate in China. Competition between small companies is fierce, loosing consumers' attention means quickly knocked out. I often get lost in the variety of products, understand the behavior of these companies in adapting to the market, and still try to find someting eternal. As a designer I own a high standard in design aspect and I pay for those products which I tought worth it, just to make a stand.

 

[mhardy6647]

Denafrips only makes R2R; according to some, supposedly there are magical properties with R2R DAC.

Magic is so darned hard to quantify, though.
We need some scientific breakthroughs, stat!

 

[mhardy6647]

In all seriousness, thanks @WitheredLeaves for sharing your perspective.

PS Simply out of curiosity: Is your screen name a reference to white or green tea, perhaps?

 

[WitheredLeaves]

In all seriousness, thanks @WitheredLeaves for sharing your perspective.

PS Simply out of curiosity: Is your screen name a reference to white or green tea, perhaps?

When I made my user name I looked left and right and saw my poor potted plant on the side (not watering for ages), oh I feel so sorry about it (still not water it)

 

[mhardy6647]

When I made my user name I looked left and right and saw my poor potted plant on the side (not watering for ages), oh I feel so sorry about it (still not water it)

Excellent!

I often tell people that my wife and I torture house plants. We try to nurture them, we really do. Over the decades, the forces of (un)natural selection have led to our house plant collection to consist of mostly jade plants and the so-called "Christmas cactuses". These specimens thrive on well-intentioned abuse care.

 

[Joe Smith]

I love all my vintage equipment, but I also appreciate the current simplicity and aesthetic of items being offered from Fosi, Aiyima, SMSL and others. I like the minimalist look of the Fosi V3, original Aiyima A07, the SMSL AO100, etc. I think Fosi in particular is moving in the direction of having unified graphics, case appearance etc.

I think there are some further strides to be made by the Hypex/Purifi amp builders. Thus far, the look of them and some of the functionality holds me back from purchase. Better looking cases and front power and standby buttons are the main things...

 

[EERecordist]

Thank you @WitheredLeaves for an informed perspective.

To industrial design, Germany, including Braun, Scandinavian, and Northern Italy have strong traditions. Frog Design, originally in Germany, had a huge impact on consumer electronics design, then Apple brought industrial design in house. Western ID firms work in China, but apparently in the audio niche it is considered an unnecessary expense. I have seen very good packaging design from SMSL, Fossi, and Crinacle. A friend of mine did the work for Apple on handheld device & accessories packaging which set that standard.

To technical design, a friend of mine did a handheld video device startup in about 2003, preceding the iPod 5th generation. They found the technical design resources for microcontroller products in China were better than in the US. So the cost of technical design turns in our audio niche may be lower than in the West.

To sales and marketing, what is fascinating to me is the pricing discipline and sales channel control in our audio niche. Direct channels or very limited overseas retailing are common. As with other consumer electronics, very similar products have different brands and channels.

Foshan Shuangmusanlin Technology Co/VMV Technology is a young company (2009) If you sell direct, you don't even need to pay to go to CES to find distributors. Your sales and marketing costs are minimal. I would not be surprised if the inventory levels are very low which saves money. No post-sales support saves money.

Since direct sales are a handoff to the US Postal Service, I'm curious if patent and trademark protection could even be enforced.

 

[Sal1950]

If you want to support Chinese products, why not choose ones that actually had some thought and care put into it. They are there.

Personally I would rather support products from a country with better human rights history whenever possible.
Just sayin, the end.

 

[Count Arthur]

Personally I would rather support products from a country with better human rights history whenever possible.
Just sayin, the end.

I best not ...

 

[Gringoaudio1]

my feeling about this basically its largely dictated by dollars?

like for sub $500 i'm less caring about ultimate design... because i can barely get Western designs I like for $500 that's truly... unique? aesthetic?

we're just talking about boxes with buttons and connectors at the end of the day - if its not too horrible then i can live with it

if people go to $1k plus then you get the $1k smsl topping dacs that are nicely built and the soncoz and jungson type 19 x 19 units that also look the part?

but i mean this is a young industry and it seems the chinese dont seem to be too sentimental about 'past glories'

i also feel like economics is almost the deciding factor

i see a LOT of recycled boxes... one day this box is an amp... one day its a dac, one day its a HP amp... i'm also ok with this

i know how much it is to make boxes from scratch and why bother if it works

i also think modern consumerism is less 'sentimental' than you would think... like its all about rapid obsolescence

stuff that is old gets unsaleable and clogs up shelf space quick - look at how quickly phones become obsolete

and i also feel chinese AND western audiences are NOT sentimental about this stuff... to many its just a 'toaster'... its just a washing machine - its gets a job done and when its busted, its chucked

and so to OP why get sentimental about it?

to wit - we buy 'things' to get 'experiences'... its not the 'things' that are important

I think you hit the nail on the head. Old boomers like me still buy for status and style. But the burgeoning CX (customer experience) and UX (user experience) movements are replacing ID. Most of my younger ID colleagues are in those new fields and have abandoned ID(Industrial Design).

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Make the display red, orange or green and get rid of the ugly open sockets and it's nearly there.
Why can't they put those sockets on the side? Or at least have removable covers on them?

What? Every frigging amp receiver etc throughout time has open sockets. Just a weird criticism. The display colour is elegant and your criticism is completely subjective. No basis for it. Visibility from a distance perhaps …. /

 

[Mart68]

What? Every frigging amp receiver etc throughout time has open sockets. Just a weird criticism. The display colour is elegant and your criticism is completely subjective. No basis for it. Visibility from a distance perhaps …. /

No not every one, I have a few that don't.

Yes, my criticism is entirely subjective. We're talking about aesthetic design, how could it be otherwise?

 

[CleanSound]

Personally I would rather support products from a country with better human rights history whenever possible.
Just sayin, the end.

Please get your politics out of an audio forum. It makes ASR an extreme turn off. And makes you look like a barking dog.

 

[WitheredLeaves]

Thank you @WitheredLeaves for an informed perspective.

To industrial design, Germany, including Braun, Scandinavian, and Northern Italy have strong traditions. Frog Design, originally in Germany, had a huge impact on consumer electronics design, then Apple brought industrial design in house. Western ID firms work in China, but apparently in the audio niche it is considered an unnecessary expense. I have seen very good packaging design from SMSL, Fossi, and Crinacle. A friend of mine did the work for Apple on handheld device & accessories packaging which set that standard.

To technical design, a friend of mine did a handheld video device startup in about 2003, proceeding the iPod 5th generation. They found the technical design resources for microcontroller products in China were better than in the US. So the cost of technical design turns in our audio niche may be lower than in the West.

To sales and marketing, what is fascinating to me is the pricing discipline and sales channel control in our audio niche. Direct channels or very limited overseas retailing are common. As with other consumer electronics, very similar products have different brands and channels.

Foshan Shuangmusanlin Technology Co/VMV Technology is a young company (2009) If you sell direct, you don't even need to pay to go to CES to find distributors. Your sales and marketing costs are minimal. I would not be surprised if the inventory levels are very low which saves money.

Since direct sales are a handoff to the US Postal Service, I'm curious if patent and trademark protection could even be enforced.

You mentioned several big design companies in the world, which are leading and also role models for design students to learn from. Companies with a high level and a long history, place design in an important position in their productive process, carefully make plans and have strategies in marketing. But for young and small companies, that's not easy to do, they lack design accumulation and capacity in management.
Unfortunately, Hi-Fi is a gradually shrinking market in China, this market is also a battlefield for many small companies. (There really aren't many experienced big audio companies in China, to be honest. I know there are many audio giants with decades of history in the West, but in China, there aren't.) Emerging small companies are facing fierce market competition. If a new launched product can't sell well, it will threaten the survival of the company. That's why many Chinese brands frequently release new products and seems not consider well about design. A classic signature and consistance of design requires history and accumulation. For those small new companies, the only thing they chould do, is to seize new opportunities, catering to market tastes. This is very realistic.
However, despite the market situation, there are still a few companies that are calmly doing things, iterate their products with a cycle of 2-3 years, and have their own unique design language. Such as Questyle (I bought almost all their products), I'm even worried that companies like them might go bankrupt... not kidding, the current market situation of Hi-Fi is despairing. You may think that what I said is exaggerated but that's true. We Chinese audiophiles have long been tired of their floodly release new products, but we also have long been accustomed to searching for real good products from the vast amount of garbage

 

[wunderkind]

When something is commoditized, the value quotient has only one way to go.
The cynic in me wonders if all products from Topping, SMSL, Nobsound, Denafrips, Fosi etc are all really from the same plant. Kinda like how bike frames originate from Giant or Merida. There was a documentary I watched years about Chinese workers in a tech city. What struck me was after a shift, hordes of the workers be it from Apple, Samsung, XioaMi or Huawei etc swarm across the city collectively in various food courts sharing dinner together.

I find Chinese tube tech to be not only good but aesthetically pleasing as well. Someone once explained to me that is because as the rest of the "industrialized world" moved on to SS or digital, China kept on with tube implementations. Therefore the skills and knowledge were maintained over the decades.

 

[Mikig]

alas, Europeans and Americans are doing it too. Differentiate, overlap, continue to change product names and inevitably take inspiration from the "drawer of the past".
The world has changed, the markets are international, the multitude of products serves to meet the tastes of every population.
The big problem? “we produce to sell”, so every second something has to be thrown out by the companies, their warehouses are full!!!
given that the average state of attention of consumers is as much as that of hamsters....

today's technical contents are frankly out of question, high standards in general, even if often the "technology" is not so within everyone's reach.....it is necessary work on it and update, update……

the shape of the objects?? well, I'm sorry for modern designers, but everything is dramatically devoid of personality, oriented more towards "commerce" than functionality. or pure aesthetics!...
in the audio field?? leaving aside the speakers which often have almost obligatory "form parts", for the rest... a lot of copying and pasting, and above all a few components, the basis of many products, inevitably all the same in essence!

.in short, the legendary products, the milestones of change, are still largely from another era...

but thinking about it, it's not just a problem of our beloved world of music reproduction: I'm also thinking, for example, of the automotive field, I've never seen such a great flattening in terms of design and contents, the same goes for houses, clothes, objects!! In short, a strange era, too global, where marketing, or the budget, matters more than free rein...

 

[Music1969]

Make the display red, orange or green and get rid of the ugly open sockets and it's nearly there.
Why can't they put those sockets on the side? Or at least have removable covers on them?

You are going deep into personal preference now.

I don't know if someone will design something just for you ?

Not just Chinese but European, American etc