What (most) Chinese manufacturers don't get

[RoA]

Style ... or more to the point, continuity.

In an effort to launch new products every 2 weeks, design is all over the place.

It's not always bad, quite the opposite. They are capable of making good looking stuff but once they do, in an effort to 'improve' the next product due in a fortnight, it's changed again.

Then there are the nomenclatures, about as inventive as locomotive numbers.

There are exceptions but the Toppings, SMSL etc sure are not.

Pride of ownership surely must go out of the window too with your product bettered, changed, re-named umpteen times a year.

They are production machines fuelling the West's need for 'progress' even though most of what came out the last two years probably sounds exactly the same, especially if they use off the shelf stuff with chips from ESS etc. ... probably difficult to make a product with those sounding bad unless completely incompetent.

If you want to support Chinese products, why not choose ones that actually had some thought and care put into it. They are there.

That is if you are not too bothered by SINAD or 6 decimal point distortion numbers that actually don't matter a jot anymore once past a certain point.

 

[LeShog]

It’s really how you implement those Ess chips that makes it or breaks it, I’ve heard terrible things in the past with new fancy products with the latest chip. That said desktop gear (at least for headphones) is a problem that’s been solved. Which means that transparent gear will all sound similar, because they are.. You know.. Transparent. If you want different sounds you can play today with class A amplifiers, valves, even r2r (I wouldn’t do the latter); valves especially can introduce distortion that can make your sound feel very satisfying, like the rumble of a Harley Davidson, especially at low volumes when transparent gear can sound weak. If you just want a change in coloration DSP is more precise than a change of gear and will save you a lot of money. Lastly you can work on your headphones (unless you have the stealth) or your loudspeakers , there you’ll find there can be room for improvement.

Style ... or more to the point, continuity.

In an effort to launch new products every 2 weeks, design is all over the place.

It's not always bad, quite the opposite. They are capable of making good looking stuff but once they do, in an effort to 'improve' the next product due in a fortnight, it's changed again.

Then there are the nomenclatures, about as inventive as locomotive numbers.

There are exceptions but the Toppings, SMSL etc sure are not.

Pride of ownership surely must go out of the window too with your product bettered, changed, re-named umpteen times a year.

They are production machines fuelling the West's need for 'progress' even though most of what came out the last two years probably sounds exactly the same, especially if they use off the shelf stuff with chips from ESS etc. ... probably difficult to make a product with those sounding bad unless completely incompetent.

If you want to support Chinese products, why not choose ones that actually had some thought and care put into it. They are there.

That is if you are not too bothered by SINAD or 6 decimal point distortion numbers that actually don't matter a jot anymore once past a certain point.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I like the look of all my Topping stuff just fine. I absolutely love the sound quality, which is even more important. I'm not paying more for a product that has worse measured performance (yes, even if I can't hear the better performance) just because it's not Chinese or has a nicer box. As far as pride of ownership goes, I couldn't care less about new products that might come out that have a few extra points of SINAD since contrary to the constantly-repeated strawman most of us aren't actually "chasing SINAD." However, if I am going to choose something based on inaudible improvements, I'll take actual, measured improvements in SINAD and distortion over some guy on the internet saying "this dac is so much juicier and more musical than that other dac" any day.

 

[mhardy6647]

Line Magnetic's been pretty consistent.

Line Magnetic Audio

specifically:

ELEGANT APPEARANCE

 

[CleanSound]

My biggest beef is that they first catered to the taste and needs of their domestic market and than sell those products to the rest of the world.

I would want to see them get feedback loop from consumers from North America and Europe, get their requirements, desires and wants. Build a product based on those requirements.

For example, I have all 430mm components, I can't find a Chinese DAC that is not a desktop component. If you look at my AV rack, my DAC looks out of place.

The second issue I have is that they do not do enough QA, their products have a lot of bugs, that likely has to do with how often they put out a different but same product, why does Topping need to sell 35 different DACs? Sell fewer and put more QA effort into each.

 

[voodooless]

Let’s not forget the horrible font choices

 

[wunderkind]

I think it's called continuous improvement or iterative product development.
Standard fare from software companies and.... uh Tesla.

End users are QAs.

 

[Sokel]

There are good ones,like Denafrips,Gustard,Holo.etc.Some of them you can actually try through dealers,they don't only sell on line.

For the rest,since their intended market is mostly desktop audio I would expect them to have some consistency since people like to stack stuff but that's not always the case,they look weird sometimes with different fonts,different shades of the same color,vastly different angles,etc.

 

[Mart68]

Styling of hi-fi equipment is a general problem these days, it's not just confined to the Chinese brands.

 

[vert]

The more discreet the product the better in my case. I've had five mini Chinese components in different rooms for a number of years now and they've been great performers so far. No need to upgrade to next year's model. SMSL, Topping et al. are innovating and other companies are unable to match them with comparable offerings. I'd like for traditional manufacturers to offer more compact systems with similar functionality. When they do it can be many times the price, made in China nonetheless. Sure you can get a Yamaha amp for instance that's performant for a good price but it's gonna be bulky. I guess I'm done with traditional hi-fi system dimensions. Now if ever have a room I can dedicate exclusively to music and/or home cinema in the future I might reconsider.

 

[terryforsythe]

Vote with your wallet. If it is lacking from your perspective, buy something else.

 

[mhardy6647]

Let’s not forget the horrible font choices

No worse than... well... you know



or, umm...

source: https://www.tnt-audio.com/edcorner/january13.html

random eBAY photo -- this one's had its original on off switch replaced.

 

[mhardy6647]

Oh, and I almost forgot!

NAD had some issues with font mania in their early days, too.

NAD 140 Stereo Receiver by Rainer, on Flickr

 

[Dialectic]

Audio Note UK has used an unusual art deco font.

I'd love to see a high end manufacturer use Comic Sans or Wingdings to differentiate their designs.

EDIT: Ayre used Wingdings on a preamp.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Having industrial design (ID) as part of the development process is overlooked so often.
Good ID requires market research and a good understanding of the history of ID in audio. ID is a budgetary line item some small manufacturers don’t think of paying for. And nice cases can cost much more than the electrical bits inside. I imagine an electronics first designer/owner would find that offensive. Ignoring ID completely denies the non technical psychological reasons that drive many of us to purchase things though. But there is also a history of good sounding (supposedly) electronics housed in sheet metal boxes. It’s a defiant stand and if you can away with it more power to you.
I like pretty things. Too much machining and overwrought design features makes a product look cheesy though. Too little attention to visual detail is boring or just plain ugly.
Nothing I’ve ever had in the audio area has made me stop and take a breath. Well maybe the Nakamichi 480 cassette deck. Just so elegant. I have a soft spot for my old Hafler pre and power amps. My Arcam receiver looks great despite being a piece of crap. My Marantz stack from 10-15 years ago with the port hole is a bit ridiculous. Pompous design. And as soon as you touch the horrible volume control the disappointment is palpable. Feel is part of good design too. The tuner knob with the heavy flywheel on it gave such a feeling of quality as it rotated and carried the tuning needle down the scale in an old HarmonKardon receiver now long gone. The tactility and feel of a product is important too.
I think my Topping D10 looks fine. But so many of products from this new wave of manufacturers have no elegance, no visual appeal, invoke no pride of ownership. And many are downright cheesy. Performance is exemplary and maybe that’s enough. Not for me.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Audio Note UK has used an unusual art deco font.

View attachment 353639

I'd love to see a high end manufacturer use Comic Sans or Wingdings to differentiate their designs.

EDIT: Ayre used Wingdings on a preamp.

View attachment 353650

Nice looking pieces.

 

[CleanSound]

There are good ones,like Denafrips,Gustard,Holo.etc.Some of them you can actually try through dealers,they don't only sell on line.

Denafrips only makes R2R; according to some, supposedly there are magical properties with R2R DAC. I'm blessed to not have been hit with the fairy dust.

Gustard makes slightly larger desktop components, but desktop nevertheless. I have their P26 preamp, it lacks refinement: significant power on and off pop, power switch cannot be controlled be remote, volume controlled is not linear.

Holo - I don't know how they perform, but regardless how they perform, it's a ripoff.

 

[Sokel]

Gustard makes slightly larger desktop components, but desktop nevertheless. I have their P26 preamp, it lacks refinement: significant power on and off pop, power switch cannot be controlled be remote, volume controlled is not linear.

Aside from the rest,sometimes times power on/off pop is a symptom of an upstream device.
It should be tested with no upstream components connected and it's inputs shorted.

Only then you can conclude it's its own fault.

(We encounter this many times in this hobby,the first thing I would do is to check everything for DC ,then rotate plug polarity in countries that's possible,check wiring in and out,etc)

 

[Music1969]

There are exceptions but the Toppings, SMSL etc sure are not.

This is pretty sexy to me with the dot matrix volume display

 

[CleanSound]

Aside from the rest,sometimes times power on/off pop is a symptom of an upstream device.
It should be tested with no upstream components connected and it's inputs shorted.

Only then you can conclude it's its own fault.

(We encounter this many times in this hobby,the first thing I would do is to check everything for DC ,then rotate plug polarity in countries that's possible,check wiring in and out,etc)

Agree. I did test the unit with no input connected. Unfortunately, it pops