Adam T5V Review (Studio Monitor)

[ctrl]

That seems very strange to me, and anomalous with respect to other research.
I wonder if there wasn't a confounding factor in this particular test. They do say that:...
I suspect that distortion in the test equipment at 70dB SL, which apparently was its maximum output at 150Hz, is the most plausible explanation for the anomalous result here.

A plausible explanation - cool!
This would also explain why at 50dB SL it "only" shows the expected "moving together of the listening thresholds" for HD2-HD5.
It would be instructive to have more sources on the subject of "masking in the low bass range".

In the study one can see the effect of "moving together of the listening thresholds" with the 350Hz masker.

A broadening of the masking range towards low frequencies is already evident in Zwicker's studies.

Would be really interesting to see how it behaves at 100Hz.

 

[MZKM]

active speakers like these, with built-in DSP, don't they apply some kind of equal loudness curve depending on volume level

Very doubtful.

There are some that do (Buchardt is doing this I believe), but the vast majority of powered speakers are not. Reason being is that most have no clue how loud something being played is, all they know is the constant gain they are applying to the incoming signal.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Reason being is that most have no clue how loud something being played is, all they know is the constant gain they are applying to the incoming signal.

Actually, even the most basic DSP used in a large number of budget DSP active speakers (ADAU1701) is able to "know" how loud the signal is, and proper equal-loudness equalisation is therefore possible (indeed Sigma Studio, which is Analog Devices' programming software for these chips, has a stock effect unit that can implement this).

I think the main reasons it's not more commonly implemented are:

1. Most of these speakers are studio monitors, where a "flat" response is expected, regardless of SPL.
2. The market is not (by-and-large) demanding that manufacturers implement these systems, and it's always easier/cheaper not to.

You'll notice that many newer-generation home-audio active speakers with DSP (e.g. Google Nest) do indeed implement some kind of equal-loudness EQ-cum-woofer protection.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

And it could play even louder than the LP6!

LP6 rated by Kali: "112 dB Max SPL"

T5V rated by Adam: "Max. SPL Per Pair at 1 m: ≥106 dB"

Seems like a disconnect worthy of further explanation for anyone planning to use these speakers in more of a midfield than nearfield situation, say for home theater.

 

[KSTR]

Not because of radiation which like you say is omnidirectional at those frequencies but because of the different location, especially if there is a boundary surface close, I see that on my desktop system with my KEF LS50 (rear port) vs. Neumann KH 120 (front port) where they give a similar bass response at the LP although the Neumann has a significantly more linear and deeper bass response anechoically.

There are situations where a 20cm offset may make for a noticably different exitation of room modes, but IME it's no big deal. Rear port vs. front port has some differences elsewhere that might be more important: Rear port reduces effective port midrange leakage, if only for the path length difference. For the same reasons, in the very near field rear port has less bass (1/r at work).

 

[Xyrium]

I'm afraid I don't follow...?

Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture - Telarc?

 

[richard12511]

Based on the preference rating, seems like subs would sure be a much needed and drastic improvement for high fidelity. I can see the good bass performance is an important distinction for applications where a sub or subs aren't practical such as an apartment or severe lack of funds. However, I just snagged a decent little sub on sale for $169(Infinity R12), so it doesn't have to be a budget buster.

I snagged 4 of those a year ago or so on a similar sale. Good performance for that price.

 

[Xyrium]

Agree as well. It seems subjective listening is contrasting the objective results...
Upper Trebles are more than 3db higher than mids and bass roll off earlier than Kali LP6...

is the Oskar’s invention (AMT) that create that JOY? Maybe...

I’m curious.
best

I don't believe there's anything wrong with the "contrast" since Objective will rarely equate to Subjective in audio reproduction. I do believe, however, that many users prefer higher distortion in the midbass to bass region due to the perceived "improvement" in output, if the driver isn't capable of actually producing low frequencies. However, when listening more critically, you may notice instrument timbre is masked as a tradeoff.

IMO, the same applies to timing. Step response measurements are indeed valuable for speakers, as again, the timbre is impacted by this. Most instruments will produce more than one fundamental, and when those fundamental frequencies cross the crossover boundaries to separate drivers, it's important that they align.

 

[Lorenzo74]

I don't believe there's anything wrong with the "contrast" since Objective will rarely equate to Subjective in audio reproduction. I do believe, however, that many users prefer higher distortion in the midbass to bass region due to the perceived "improvement" in output, if the driver isn't capable of actually producing low frequencies. However, when listening more critically, you may notice instrument timbre is masked as a tradeoff.

IMO, the same applies to timing. Step response measurements are indeed valuable for speakers, as again, the timbre is impacted by this. Most instruments will produce more than one fundamental, and when those fundamental frequencies cross the crossover boundaries to separate drivers, it's important that they align.

fully agree with you on second statement. The first still not clear to me. I invested in Dirac live mainly to achive driver time alignment, this create the “focus” of the scene that to me is a little bit lost when you have coherent but not coincident step response.
however step response it not included in Floyd Toole rating,,,

let me add this, I found spot on: kali lp6 vs adam t5...
http://digitalstereophony.blogspot.com/2019/05/kali-lp-6-vs-adam-t5v-comparison-review.html

@amirm , don’t get me wrong and apologize upfront.
I’m interested into your opinion and insight about the bass of the T5v vs lp6.
the reason is simple, I was almost clicking on kali button and reading your review I decided to wait and step back. Since I trust you, which one would you reccomend considering both near and mid field listening with attention to below 100Hz bass frequency? Thanks in advance.

Quote:”So I pulled in the Kali LP6. I was quite surprised that the Adam T5V with its smaller woofer was able to once again produce more bass. I think this is due to the shelving of the upper bass in LP6. Regardless, the T5V sounded much warmer and balanced due to more bass energy. And it could play even louder than the LP6!”...

 

[Helicopter]

IMO, any EQ is a big deal regardless of price. Otherwise, why not EQ them in the anechoic to be "perfect" and publish those results to show what is capable? I think when you start to EQ it's a slippery slope. EQ requirement is very room dependent so I think leaving them "flat" as designed and not publishing an EQ would be best. That's just my opinion as the majority of users do not know how to EQ anyway or even measure to know what to EQ. I found out a long time ago in my profession that if you give people more knobs to play with they will likely screw it up worse than just leaving it. Simple is usually best for the masses.

When electronics are measured on the AP the result isn't changed so why change the speaker?

I agree a monitor should be flat and think its a little wierd an active monitor has this issue. Maybe it is driver variation. What I meant is the performance without EQ is OK to me at the price.

 

[Xyrium]

fully agree with you on second statement. The first still not clear to me. I invested in Dirac live mainly to achive driver time alignment, this create the “focus” of the scene that to me is a little bit lost when you have coherent but not coincident step response.
however step response it not included in Floyd Toole rating,,,

let me add this, I found spot on: kali lp6 vs adam t5...
http://digitalstereophony.blogspot.com/2019/05/kali-lp-6-vs-adam-t5v-comparison-review.html

@amirm , don’t get me wrong and apologize upfront.
I’m interested into your opinion and insight about the bass of the T5v vs lp6.
the reason is simple, I was almost clicking on kali button and reading your review I decided to wait and step back. Since I trust you, which one would you reccomend considering both near and mid field listening with attention to below 100Hz bass frequency? Thanks in advance.

Quote:”So I pulled in the Kali LP6. I was quite surprised that the Adam T5V with its smaller woofer was able to once again produce more bass. I think this is due to the shelving of the upper bass in LP6. Regardless, the T5V sounded much warmer and balanced due to more bass energy. And it could play even louder than the LP6!”...

What you don't see in a simple FR graph is distortion, however. Which had higher distortion in the LF, or even, below 300Hz? All else being equal, I would expect the model with higher distortion in that range, to sound "fuller", though not necessarily more accurate/true to the recording.

 

[Ron Texas]

Cheap, measures well, active, sounds good, what's not to like? Thank you @amirm .

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Preference Rating
SCORE: 4.2
SCORE w/ sub: 6.4

Frequency response: +/-6.2dB 45Hz-20kHz ; +/-2.5dB 80Hz-20kHz

vs. T8V

Preference Rating
SCORE: 4.7
SCORE w/sub: 6.3

Frequency response: +/-5.7dB 33Hz-20kHz ; +/-2.8dB 80Hz-20kHz

 

[amirm]

A possible reason I can think of is the rear vs. frontal port which can couple differently to the room, some real listening position measurements would shed a light on that.

That could be it. Speakers are very close to a back wall. But no, I am not posting more measurements.

 

[amirm]

Why is there such a marked difference between the bass in this graph and the Klippel graph?

They are completely different measurements. The spin data is based on near-field scanner and takes 2.5 hours. The other graphs such as distortion are one-shot measurements at 1/3 of a meter, reported at 1 meter. As such, you have room effects and near-field response for bass frequencies which is very different than anechoic (near) far field data that NFS produces.

I can turn these measurements into anechoic but that takes work and for the purpose of what we are using them, it is not necessary. Use them to compare data rather than absolute. When I do apply the anechoic correction, they do go down especially around 100 Hz.

 

[LTig]

If stones do resist, try with the new model...

https://www.adam-audio.com/en/news/industry/adam-audio-t8v-studio-monitor-available-now/

Would be interesting to see this as a cheap 3-way.

 

[Geezerman]

Is there a passive speaker I should consider that is about the size of the T5V and price range?

I have a Chinese chip amp that has a TI chip, but it does not have any sophisticated DSP electronics.
it's one of those Ebay cheapies that sounds pretty darn good for what it is. There is a large thread at another forum on them

 

[amirm]

@amirm , don’t get me wrong and apologize upfront.
I’m interested into your opinion and insight about the bass of the T5v vs lp6.
the reason is simple, I was almost clicking on kali button and reading your review I decided to wait and step back. Since I trust you, which one would you reccomend considering both near and mid field listening with attention to below 100Hz bass frequency? Thanks in advance.

I have nothing to offer beyond near-field listening in my setup. The active DSP in these speakers may be limiting the bass performance at elevated volumes which I used in my listening tests.

 

[theyellowspecial]

So just "meh" for farfield? It's unfortunate monitors designed for farfield are so much more expensive than their nearfield counterparts.

 

[amirm]

So just "meh" for farfield?

No, I just haven't tested it that way. Depending on room size it may be fine there as well. I just don't have the data to share.