Active Speakers Better? No, per Michael Borresen

[Chrispy]

Wow just read that cryogenics article on their site....I feel dirty now.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

Enough said

 

[Chrispy]

Enough said

If not too much

 

[Scrappy]

Sure. He also says that cryogenizing his own speakers makes them sound even better. And charges 6000€ for it.


The only Børresen I've heard was the Z3 at a show, so not ideal listening conditions for sure, but... It just sounded awful. Even worse when I came to know the pair costs 26-32k€ (32k for Cryo Edition)

I won't listen anything that this guy has to say. Cheers.

Buyo once Cryo once...

 

[Scrappy]

The old truth - It ain't what You do, but how You do it - is valid also when it comes to speaker design. Great sounding speakers can be made in both active and passive configuration. Having said that, I think the configuration that offers highest potential is based on doing the crossovers first in digital domain and then having separate d/a and power amplification for each driver.

Some people object having amplifiers integrated in speaker cabinets, but nothing prevents from building a system with dsp, d/a and power amplification as separate entities and having speaker cabinets containing only the drivers.

Single-amp, bi/ tri/ quad+ amp can happen in or out of the cabinet. Damping sure is better in. Servicing amps is easier out. I figure if you’re building a processing amp for a specific speaker, slap it in the back of cabinet as it’s gonna have idealized circuitry and controls.

 

[ferrellms]

The best sounding speaker I have had the pleasure to hear is made by Borresen.
I recently spent time with Michael Borresen in Seattle at a show. It was slow so
I was able to speak with him for a time. I asked him if he plans an active speaker.
His answer was a definitive and immediate "No". He said separates sound better.

His statement flies in the face of what passes in most audio corners as commonly recognized facts.

Sadly I am too technically challenged to convey any of his further explanation.

I invite all intelligent commentary on this question. Theoretical or not.

What is he selling? That is the only relevant question at an audio show.

 

[dfuller]

Sounds like a crock to me. There are only advantages to actives, no disadvantages.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I won't listen anything that this guy has to say. Cheers.

Now that's an open mind!
If a broken clock can be right twice a day, can't a snake oil salesman be right occasionally too?

 

[Mr. Widget]

The best sounding speaker I have had the pleasure to hear is made by Borresen.
I recently spent time with Michael Borresen in Seattle at a show. It was slow so
I was able to speak with him for a time. I asked him if he plans an active speaker.
His answer was a definitive and immediate "No". He said separates sound better.

His statement flies in the face of what passes in most audio corners as commonly recognized facts.

Sadly I am too technically challenged to convey any of his further explanation.

I invite all intelligent commentary on this question. Theoretical or not.

I think it is pretty easy to prove that going fully active is the best solution from a design standpoint and placing the amps as close to the speaker is the best solution as well... another benefit of going active is that the designer can contour the amp(s) and control time and phase to get the best from the speakers.

 

[noiseangel]

I think it is pretty easy to prove that going fully active is the best solution from a design standpoint and placing the amps as close to the speaker is the best solution as well... another benefit of going active is that the designer can contour the amp(s) and control time and phase to get the best from the speakers.

You know why every up market hi-fi/audiophile shop doesn't actively promote active loudspeakers? Because they don't get to sell you those expensive BS loudspeaker cables. For every pair of actives sold a premium hifi dealer misses out on a Porsche payment.

 

[LTig]

You know why every up market hi-fi/audiophile shop doesn't actively promote active loudspeakers? Because they don't get to sell you those expensive BS loudspeaker cables. For every pair of actives sold a premium hifi dealer misses out on a Porsche payment.

But they could compensate by selling two long cables instead of one (XLR interconnect and power line).

 

[noiseangel]

But they could compensate by selling two long cables instead of one (XLR interconnect and power line).

Or a $5000 USB cable

 

[egellings]

He seems to prefer series crossovers, something he can’t do in an active system. And what’s up with that obsession with inductance? That can’t be healthy…

Crossover looks curious though: it seems to have a few active components:

They are foil inductors with what to me seems like excessive interwinding capacitance resulting in a low self-resonance frequency. So long as signals passing through them are below that frequency, then there should no major problem with using them. I see no real benefit in using them.

 

[voodooless]

They are foil inductors with what to me seems like excessive interwinding capacitance resulting in a low self-resonance frequency. So long as signals passing through them are below that frequency, then there should no major problem with using them. I see no real benefit in using them.

I’m mostly referring to the what looks te be an opamp and some transistors.

 

[Spkrdctr]

From what I have read this is the same dude that goes to great lengths to eliminate that evil inductance in his driver's voices coils only to add it back again in his passive crossovers. Someone should tell him that this wouldn't happen in an active system if the amplifier was driving the speaker driver directly. Any design engineer worth his salt would already know this but then I guess his dealers can't up-sell more of his standalone separate components if he'd designed it properly in the first place and put it all inside his speaker box. LOL

Smack!

 

[chorus]

Scappi said-Buyo once Cryo once...

That's their line!

Good'un!

 

[Palladium]

You know why every up market hi-fi/audiophile shop doesn't actively promote active loudspeakers? Because they don't get to sell you those expensive BS loudspeaker cables. For every pair of actives sold a premium hifi dealer misses out on a Porsche payment.

They better don't find out how cheap the internal wiring are inside those cabinets.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

For steel, cryogenic treatment actually results in an increase in resistance, more than doubling in some cases. Cryogenic treatment was developed as a way to increase hardness and wear resistance in tool metals. This is just another example of audiophile snake-oil merchants latching onto something they don’t understand because they know the gullible fools they sell to will be equally clueless.

Yeah, but Quantum Cryogenizing is the real deal!

 

[Tangband]

My take on this is that if done right, good results can be had with booth passive and active speakers.
A very skilled constructor can use passive components to lower the distortion in active speakers, and use the most optimal output impedance for each driver . In the bass area, there are technical reasons that active is better ( If done right ) .

The future seems to be dsp crossovers and active speakers like Kef ls60 , Linn exakt and Genelec SAM monitors , were you go digital all the way even doing the dsp crossover AND roomcorrection without the need of an A/D conversion.

This future is already here, mainly because a digital crossover can be cheaper than good analog crossover components , and the result overall can be stunning.

With active dsp crossovers and EQ , the shape of the speaker can be made domestic acceptable without to much soundcompromises, with very high WAF giving satisfying sound results for the customers ( Kef ls60 is a good example ) .

 

[MaxBuck]

If you want active, buy active. If you don't, buy passive.

Simple concept.