Active Speakers Better? No, per Michael Borresen

[Mnyb]

You know why every up market hi-fi/audiophile shop doesn't actively promote active loudspeakers? Because they don't get to sell you those expensive BS loudspeaker cables. For every pair of actives sold a premium hifi dealer misses out on a Porsche payment.

Not only the cables, in this price range you must have the corresponding monoblocks sitting on the floor a preamp with separate PSU and ofcourse a RIAA amp also with its own PSU . And for good measure a multibox DAC solution from DcS if that not to pedestrian and you can then of course have bunches of very expensive cables to all this ...

 

[Mr. Widget]

Not only the cables, in this price range you must have the corresponding monoblocks sitting on the floor a preamp with separate PSU and ofcourse a RIAA amp also with its own PSU . And for good measure a multibox DAC solution from DcS if that not to pedestrian and you can then of course have bunches of very expensive cables to all this ...

So true, but it also takes a lot of the fun out of it for the guy who likes tube rolling, cable swaps, and all the other costly and dubious tweaks.

A modern day DSP based Cello Audio Palette might go a long way to satisfying those urges, but then where is the magic? So many audiophiles enjoy magical solutions as well as magical thinking.

Personally, I'd rather listen to good tunes and let others have fun in their own ways. Be it measuring equipment or spending money on audio ephemera.

 

[Vacceo]

I'm not against the principle of active speakers. In P.A. land this is already since long that almost all speakers have an active crossover and amps direct to speakers. It's that the system used in hifi very often is not made to last long, or made to be repaired. Passive systems are and that is one of the key reasons why they are still so popular. Fix that, and most people will go active as it's more convenient and waf-friendly (less metal boxes that mess up the interior).

And some brands, like Genelec or Klein&Hummel/Neumann make sure their amp are build to last long since they went active. They are not so popular among hifi people because they are not marketed as hifi, but as studio monitors. But make that build quality, and active speakers will be more popular. Kef goes the right direction with some of the models of the last decade, but most others don't. Even with the cheaper studio monitors that is a big issue. You don't want to know how much Yamaha HS series and KRK monitors with broken amps i already have seen... And most were less than a decade old. Idem with active subs btw...

I honestly think that actives will be the "hifi salvation" for the younger generations that have walked away from it. If you can deliver a package with the quality of the LS actives (or the Genelecs!) and its ease of use, perhaps quality reproduction for home consumers might be saved.

To me, the extra mile would be in the removal of remotes by making external sources (physical) also compatible with the respective manufacturer´s APP (KEF connect and such). I´d say the gaming world may be a very interesting target demographic. Nothing beats the sound of a game on a good HT system.

 

[Waxx]

I honestly think that actives will be the "hifi salvation" for the younger generations that have walked away from it. If you can deliver a package with the quality of the LS actives (or the Genelecs!) and its ease of use, perhaps quality reproduction for home consumers might be saved.

To me, the extra mile would be in the removal of remotes by making external sources (physical) also compatible with the respective manufacturer´s APP (KEF connect and such). I´d say the gaming world may be a very interesting target demographic. Nothing beats the sound of a game on a good HT system.

But then the support for a long time, with spare parts is essential. Because that drives a lot of potential customers for active away from them. Even in P.A. land that is still an issue. Electronics don't live that long, not as long as the speakers stay good. That is the main concern i hear from many, and also my main concern. Idem with studio monitors, most (but pro studio's) try to avoid acitve models because of the fact that amps die way to soon for their economics.

Most mainstream buyers want a simple solution that is not to big, not the audiophile setup with dozens of boxes and a whole leap of cables behind them. That is why integrated amps are the mainstream for hifi buyers that take hifi serious (so no boomboxes or phones), and are not audiophools. Marantz, Nad, Cambridge, Yamaha and similar integrated amps are still the most sold amps down here, just like passive speakers sell a lot more than active. The active LS50 did make some impact, but it's still not selling as much as those integrated amps and passive speakers. And surely here in Belgium, a lot of people keep using the speakers they bought long time ago, at least untill they are broken (what can be a few decades). So if the change comes, it will be a very slow change.

 

[LTig]

But then the support for a long time, with spare parts is essential. Because that drives a lot of potential customers for active away from them. Even in P.A. land that is still an issue. Electronics don't live that long, not as long as the speakers stay good. That is the main concern i hear from many, and also my main concern. Idem with studio monitors, most (but pro studio's) try to avoid acitve models because of the fact that amps die way to soon for their economics.

Have you ever thought about why studio pros buy active speakers? Do you know how long those pro monitors by Genelec, Neumann et. al. are used before they die? I think what is good enough for a pro who runs active monitors far louder and far longer then me in my private home is more than good enough for domestic audio.

Most mainstream buyers want a simple solution that is not to big, not the audiophile setup with dozens of boxes and a whole leap of cables behind them. That is why integrated amps are the mainstream for hifi buyers that take hifi serious (so no boomboxes or phones), and are not audiophools. Marantz, Nad, Cambridge, Yamaha and similar integrated amps are still the most sold amps down here, just like passive speakers sell a lot more than active. The active LS50 did make some impact, but it's still not selling as much as those integrated amps and passive speakers. And surely here in Belgium, a lot of people keep using the speakers they bought long time ago, at least untill they are broken (what can be a few decades). So if the change comes, it will be a very slow change.

Actually most mainstream audio buyers buy active boom boxes, active BT speakers and active soundbars and don't care a bit about longevity. We here are a small minority.

 

[Vacceo]

But then the support for a long time, with spare parts is essential. Because that drives a lot of potential customers for active away from them. Even in P.A. land that is still an issue. Electronics don't live that long, not as long as the speakers stay good. That is the main concern i hear from many, and also my main concern. Idem with studio monitors, most (but pro studio's) try to avoid acitve models because of the fact that amps die way to soon for their economics.

Most mainstream buyers want a simple solution that is not to big, not the audiophile setup with dozens of boxes and a whole leap of cables behind them. That is why integrated amps are the mainstream for hifi buyers that take hifi serious (so no boomboxes or phones), and are not audiophools. Marantz, Nad, Cambridge, Yamaha and similar integrated amps are still the most sold amps down here, just like passive speakers sell a lot more than active. The active LS50 did make some impact, but it's still not selling as much as those integrated amps and passive speakers. And surely here in Belgium, a lot of people keep using the speakers they bought long time ago, at least untill they are broken (what can be a few decades). So if the change comes, it will be a very slow change.

Genelec repairs decades-old speakers, so it is perfectly doable.

 

[jae]

Simple solution is to take any listening to speakers at a show with a grain of salt.

 

[Adi777]

The best setup I heard most of time is passive. I have heard Genelec and ATC full range in studio environment, but can't compare to passive audiophile. For detail and imaging it is still passive.

What is this system?

 

[Waxx]

Genelec repairs decades-old speakers, so it is perfectly doable.

I know, but most other brands don't, and that is a big issue for many customers. Genelec should (and is trying to) go to the hifi market also, and so should Neumann (the old Klein & Hummel) who does the same. That would force many brands to comply to that policy.

 

[Killingbeans]

There's still the risk of those brands going belly-up before the speaker dies.

Open source firmware and publicly available high quality service manuals would be the noble thing to do, but it's a risky move in a world of copy cats.

 

[Vacceo]

I know, but most other brands don't, and that is a big issue for many customers. Genelec should (and is trying to) go to the hifi market also, and so should Neumann (the old Klein & Hummel) who does the same. That would force many brands to comply to that policy.

Genelec just needs a preamp that can easily send digital signals to the amps and decode multichannel formats (and upmix to them). Yes, that is doable with an AVP, but it will send analogue signals and includes a redundant room EQ. It may even be a not so expensive device as it can bypass the cost of room EQ software (Genelec already has it), DAC implementation and other redundant elements. Knowing these forums, if they did a device like that, it´d become extremelly popular around here.

 

[Stinius]

As wirelessly connected active speakers are becoming more popular, it is obvious that high-end audio equipment manufacturers need to pay attention to signal quality deterioration in over the air transmission. I mean, as everyone surely knows, impurities in cheap speaker cables add distortion to the sound, so it only makes sense that impurities in listening room air will do the same for wireless transmission. What is needed is high-end audio quality air purifier that cleans the signal path to the speakers.

Scientific studies by professor Vytautas Kusetus have already shown that especially the RPIG (Rectally Passed Intestinal Gasses) induced distortion has a noticeable effect that has been verified in blind tests.

Fantastic, this is maybe the most hilarious post I have ever seen.
Congratulations.
Its all BS
I hope it was as a joke.
S

 

[Killingbeans]

Genelec just needs a preamp that can easily send digital signals to the amps and decode multichannel formats (and upmix to them). Yes, that is doable with an AVP, but it will send analogue signals and includes a redundant room EQ. It may even be a not so expensive device as it can bypass the cost of room EQ software (Genelec already has it), DAC implementation and other redundant elements. Knowing these forums, if they did a device like that, it´d become extremelly popular around here.

Something like this?:

Audiopraise VanityPro Review (HDMI Audio Extractor)

This is a review and measurements of the Audiopraise VanityPro HDMI audio extractor. It was kindly sent to me by their distributor, JVB Digital and costs US $1,599. The VanityPro is a compact device, not much bigger than typical desktop audio products. Its main functionality is to extract...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I hope it was as a joke.

It was. But if you want products that are designed with that kind of complete disregard of reality in mind, then Synergistic Research has you covered.

 

[Vacceo]

Something like this?:

Audiopraise VanityPro Review (HDMI Audio Extractor)

This is a review and measurements of the Audiopraise VanityPro HDMI audio extractor. It was kindly sent to me by their distributor, JVB Digital and costs US $1,599. The VanityPro is a compact device, not much bigger than typical desktop audio products. Its main functionality is to extract...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It was. But if you want products that are designed with that kind of complete disregard of reality in mind, then Synergistic Research has you covered.

Pretty much. Add Atmos and DTS X decoding on the pack, capacity to move 11 or more speakers, connections for sources, and we have a massive winner set of electronics.

I was thinking along the lines of something like a Trinnov without the room EQ as Genelec does that on their speakers already.

 

[antcollinet]

Sure. He also says that cryogenizing his own speakers makes them sound even better. And charges 6000€ for it.


The only Børresen I've heard was the Z3 at a show, so not ideal listening conditions for sure, but... It just sounded awful. Even worse when I came to know the pair costs 26-32k€ (32k for Cryo Edition)

I won't listen anything that this guy has to say. Cheers.

Alloying elements are pushed out of the grain structure of the metal,

Where TF do they go? And is it still steel, or layers of iron and carbon? Or interwoven strands of iron and carbon. FFS.

You'd think the doofi writing this stuff would at least have a cursory review to check if they hold up to even simple questioning.

 

[MattHooper]

Nothing beats the sound of a game on a good HT system.

I can think of something: the sound of a game NOT playing on my HT system!

(Can you tell I'm not a gamer? )

 

[Vacceo]

I can think of something: the sound of a game NOT playing on my HT system!

(Can you tell I'm not a gamer? )

Same as Death Metal: for me a great experience, for you, probably a gag reflex.

What matters here is not so much the preference but the fact that no matter how good the headphone experience is on audio-visual content, a set of speakers provide a far better experience.

 

[MattHooper]

Same as Death Metal: for me a great experience, for you, probably a gag reflex.

Oh, believe me, I like some pretty crazy music that would make most people gag. (Just ask my wife).

What matters here is not so much the preference but the fact that no matter how good the headphone experience is on audio-visual content, a set of speakers provide a far better experience.

I agree, personally.

 

[Vacceo]

Many games, just as films, have sound designed to play on a DTS X system, so listening as intended, is also hi fi.

 

[Killingbeans]

Oh, believe me, I like some pretty crazy music that would make most people gag. (Just ask my wife).

Crazy I can handle. If you want me to gag, Jazz, country or schlager will do the trick.