Active Speakers Better? No, per Michael Borresen

[Tangband]

You know why every up market hi-fi/audiophile shop doesn't actively promote active loudspeakers? Because they don't get to sell you those expensive BS loudspeaker cables. For every pair of actives sold a premium hifi dealer misses out on a Porsche payment.

This is unfortunately very true in many stores.

 

[JiiPee]

As wirelessly connected active speakers are becoming more popular, it is obvious that high-end audio equipment manufacturers need to pay attention to signal quality deterioration in over the air transmission. I mean, as everyone surely knows, impurities in cheap speaker cables add distortion to the sound, so it only makes sense that impurities in listening room air will do the same for wireless transmission. What is needed is high-end audio quality air purifier that cleans the signal path to the speakers.

Scientific studies by professor Vytautas Kusetus have already shown that especially the RPIG (Rectally Passed Intestinal Gasses) induced distortion has a noticeable effect that has been verified in blind tests.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

As wirelessly connected active speakers are becoming more popular, it is obvious that high-end audio equipment manufacturers need to pay attention to signal quality deterioration in over the air transmission. I mean, as everyone surely knows, impurities in cheap speaker cables add distortion to the sound, so it only makes sense that impurities in listening room air will do the same for wireless transmission. What is needed is high-end audio quality air purifier that cleans the signal path to the speakers.

Scientific studies by professor Vytautas Kusetus have already shown that especially the RPIG (Rectally Passed Intestinal Gasses) induced distortion has a noticeable effect that has been verified in blind tests.

So don't feed the dog the leftover beenie-weenies if you planning on doing a serious listening session?

 

[dorakeg]

Actives vs passives?

I am not exactly a fan of active speakers because I still prefer to be able to mix and match things as I want.

What I do like about active speakers are that they already have the amp built right in! All you need is just power. With wireless options you don't even need any additional cables! Neat and compact solution!!

But since it's "all-in-one", this means there isn't much I can do. Sometimes I like to buy and try out old 2nd hand amps, I can't do that with active speakers.

So I would say it's more of a matter of preference.

 

[Adi777]

Scientific studies by professor Vytautas Kusetus have already shown that especially the RPIG (Rectally Passed Intestinal Gasses) induced distortion has a noticeable effect that has been verified in blind tests.

What???

 

[Hephaestus]

What???

That was humour.... Kusetus = deception

 

[FrantzM]

Yep!
Great!
Another purveyor of HEA BS will be getting more traction in Audio discussions, thanks to ASR.

Ironic isn't it?

Peace

 

[fpitas]

So actives are worse?

If all your company makes is passives? Yes!

 

[Killingbeans]

My take on this is that if done right, good results can be had with booth passive and active speakers.
A very skilled constructor can use passive components to lower the distortion in active speakers, and use the most optimal output impedance for each driver . In the bass area, there are technical reasons that active is better ( If done right ) .

The future seems to be dsp crossovers and active speakers like Kef ls60 , Linn exakt and Genelec SAM monitors , were you go digital all the way even doing the dsp crossover AND roomcorrection without the need of an A/D conversion.

This future is already here, mainly because a digital crossover can be cheaper than good analog crossover components , and the result overall can be stunning.

With active dsp crossovers and EQ , the shape of the speaker can be made domestic acceptable without to much soundcompromises, with very high WAF giving satisfying sound results for the customers ( Kef ls60 is a good example ) .

My vision for the future would be active speakers with individual ampliverter DACs for the drivers. Based around high frequency switching GaN FET active rectifiers, making them tiny, highly effecient and allowing the use of film capacitors throughout the design, substantially improving the reliability. Each amp tailored to perfectly incorporate the parameters of the drivers as a part of the output filter, and a number of paralleled ultra fast ADCs for post filter feedback.

Servo feedback on the woofers (sense coil, optical, accelerometer or something else) and maybe even field coils instead of permanent magnets, if it has any real benefits.

Dante or some other ethernet protocol over Powerline for those who don't like wireless, but wish for a single cable solution.

DSP crossovers and EQ built in of course.

I really don't see any downsides to active speakers.

As long as we can avoid hiss and accompanying software that's buggy or gets "bricked" when there's no more support for it, I'm happy

 

[Waxx]

My vision for the future would be active speakers with individual ampliverter DACs for the drivers. Based around high frequency switching GaN FET active rectifiers, making them tiny, highly effecient and allowing the use of film capacitors throughout the design, substantially improving the reliability. Each amp tailored to perfectly incorporate the parameters of the drivers as a part of the output filter, and a number of paralleled ultra fast ADCs for post filter feedback.

Servo feedback on the woofers (sense coil, optical, accelerometer or something else) and maybe even field coils instead of permanent magnets, if it has any real benefits.

Dante or some other ethernet protocol over Powerline for those who don't like wireless, but wish for a single cable solution.

DSP crossovers and EQ built in of course.

I really don't see any downsides to active speakers.

As long as we can avoid hiss and accompanying software that's buggy or gets "bricked" when there's no more support for it, I'm happy

This is in theory a perfect scenario, but the reality says that those electronics die way faster than the speaker itself. I've seen tons of speakers what were perfect working, except the amp inside.

I think both scenario's will keep existing untill that issue is resolved. Because converting active with broken amps to passive is something i and a woodworker i worked with earned a lot of money already. And people who had those, are not keen to buy active speakers again after their expensive system died after often even less than a decade and the company that made the speakers won't supply a replacement amp for a reasonable price.

I quit doing that because i moved out of the city to a very rural and remote area (so my clients live mostly far) and i more want to design and build speakers myself. It's also the reason why i'm not keen to buy such speakers myself again (i had Tannoy Reveal's in the past) if i would buy speakers again. I don't because i make them myself now...

 

[Cbdb2]

Now that's an open mind!
If a broken clock can be right twice a day, can't a snake oil salesman be right occasionally too?

If your minds is too open it falls out and is replaced with their BS.

 

[CtheArgie]

As wirelessly connected active speakers are becoming more popular, it is obvious that high-end audio equipment manufacturers need to pay attention to signal quality deterioration in over the air transmission. I mean, as everyone surely knows, impurities in cheap speaker cables add distortion to the sound, so it only makes sense that impurities in listening room air will do the same for wireless transmission. What is needed is high-end audio quality air purifier that cleans the signal path to the speakers.

Scientific studies by professor Vytautas Kusetus have already shown that especially the RPIG (Rectally Passed Intestinal Gasses) induced distortion has a noticeable effect that has been verified in blind tests.

I have a dog that RPIGs a lot. I notice some veiling when that happens and blacks become less black for a few seconds.

My dad was born in Wilno, now Vilnius, so he probably knew of old Vitautas.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Why are we always looking for authority figures and higher powers to tell us what is good and what is bad. Sounds very close to religion and fascism. There simply are very few if any people in business that you can really trust for an unbiased opinion if a sale is involved. Audio included and especially.

 

[egellings]

I have a dog that RPIGs a lot. I notice some veiling when that happens and blacks become less black for a few seconds.

My dad was born in Wilno, now Vilnius, so he probably knew of old Vitautas.

Tell that hound to pluggit!

 

[Tangband]

This is in theory a perfect scenario, but the reality says that those electronics die way faster than the speaker itself. I've seen tons of speakers what were perfect working, except the amp inside.

I think both scenario's will keep existing untill that issue is resolved. Because converting active with broken amps to passive is something i and a woodworker i worked with earned a lot of money already. And people who had those, are not keen to buy active speakers again after their expensive system died after often even less than a decade and the company that made the speakers won't supply a replacement amp for a reasonable price.

I quit doing that because i moved out of the city to a very rural and remote area (so my clients live mostly far) and i more want to design and build speakers myself. It's also the reason why i'm not keen to buy such speakers myself again (i had Tannoy Reveal's in the past) if i would buy speakers again. I don't because i make them myself now...

This is my smallest active speaker with heavily eq and dsp . I bought it 2014 and its still working flawless . Maybe there is about 10 years life or more , in active loudspeakers of good quality ?
Edit: This ”Bose” technique is used in every modern flat tv and bluetooth device on the market 2022. I wonder where the fear of bad reliability comes from… why is the hifi market so conservative ?

 

[kongwee]

The best setup I heard most of time is passive. I have heard Genelec and ATC full range in studio environment, but can't compare to passive audiophile. For detail and imaging it is still passive.

 

[JPA]

The best sounding speaker I have had the pleasure to hear is made by Borresen.
I recently spent time with Michael Borresen in Seattle at a show. It was slow so
I was able to speak with him for a time. I asked him if he plans an active speaker.
His answer was a definitive and immediate "No". He said separates sound better.

His statement flies in the face of what passes in most audio corners as commonly recognized facts.

Sadly I am too technically challenged to convey any of his further explanation.

I invite all intelligent commentary on this question. Theoretical or not.

Rather than listen to snake oil salesmen, you should listen to someone who actually knows what he is talking about. Rod Elliott is an expert:
https://sound-au.com/bi-amp.htm
and
https://sound-au.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

 

[JPA]

The old truth - It ain't what You do, but how You do it - is valid also when it comes to speaker design. Great sounding speakers can be made in both active and passive configuration. Having said that, I think the configuration that offers highest potential is based on doing the crossovers first in digital domain and then having separate d/a and power amplification for each driver.

Some people object having amplifiers integrated in speaker cabinets, but nothing prevents from building a system with dsp, d/a and power amplification as separate entities and having speaker cabinets containing only the drivers.

That's what I do. IMO it's the best of both worlds.

 

[Tangband]

Rather than listen to snake oil salesmen, you should listen to someone who actually knows what he is talking about. Rod Elliott is an expert:
https://sound-au.com/bi-amp.htm
and
https://sound-au.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

Yes - This is very good teaching.
He even brings up the subject of optimising amplifiers with different output impedance in active systems, to get lower dynamic compression and ( potentially ) better sound. And the lowering of IMD distortion in active systems.
His site should be read as much as Tooles books.

 

[Waxx]

This is my smallest active speaker with heavily eq and dsp . I bought it 2014 and its still working flawless . Maybe there is about 10 years life or more , in active loudspeakers of good quality ?
Edit: This ”Bose” technique is used in every modern flat tv and bluetooth device on the market 2022. I wonder where the fear of bad reliability comes from… why is the hifi market so conservative ?

View attachment 240316

I'm not against the principle of active speakers. In P.A. land this is already since long that almost all speakers have an active crossover and amps direct to speakers. It's that the system used in hifi very often is not made to last long, or made to be repaired. Passive systems are and that is one of the key reasons why they are still so popular. Fix that, and most people will go active as it's more convenient and waf-friendly (less metal boxes that mess up the interior).

And some brands, like Genelec or Klein&Hummel/Neumann make sure their amp are build to last long since they went active. They are not so popular among hifi people because they are not marketed as hifi, but as studio monitors. But make that build quality, and active speakers will be more popular. Kef goes the right direction with some of the models of the last decade, but most others don't. Even with the cheaper studio monitors that is a big issue. You don't want to know how much Yamaha HS series and KRK monitors with broken amps i already have seen... And most were less than a decade old. Idem with active subs btw...