Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[abdo123]

They might limit the amount of support channels based on the computing power of the Sharc DSP chips for lower end receivers.
I don't think they would limit ART availability to their top end models.
Bass control is also available for the X3800h as an $800 upgrade (for a ~1000€ receiver)

All Xx800 series uses the same Sharc DSP chips from X3800 to the A10

 

[EWL5]

All Xx800 series uses the same Sharc DSP chips from X3800 to the A10

Part of the reason why the 3800 was so expensive compared to its Onkyo and Pioneer counterparts (RZ50 and 505, etc.)!

 

[jtatknox]

I think it also depends on your room.
In a rectangular room the first room mode will be at the front and rear wall and the second order on the side walls so you could strategically place highly capable subs at positions where those low frequency modes would lie.

I think 4 capable subs in each corner should work well enough especially with the boundary gain from the corner.

I'm thinking maybe 4 L12. It will be really interesting to see how people experiment with these.

 

[IamJF]

To all Dirac ART users - could you confirm what your preamp with ART active is doing with the LFE channel in these 2 setups:

*) You have no subwoofer but all 7 ground channels are set to large. Is the LFE distributed to all 7 evenly and you can use them also as support speakers? How would you group them?

*) There are subwoofers but also a few capable fullrange speakers. Is the LFE signal also distributed to the fullrange speakers or only kept with the woofers? Can you define that the fullranges also play LFE?


Thanks to anyone who can check that out!

 

[juliangst]

I wonder about this myself too.
Some people here and also people on a german home theatre forum said that with subs in your system only one sub is getting LFE. This sub can get support from other speakers and subs but the LFE signal only plays through that one sub.

 

[IamJF]

THAT would be really silly ...

Does anyone here have first hand experience?

 

[abdo123]

To all Dirac ART users - could you confirm what your preamp with ART active is doing with the LFE channel in these 2 setups:

*) You have no subwoofer but all 7 ground channels are set to large. Is the LFE distributed to all 7 evenly and you can use them also as support speakers? How would you group them?

*) There are subwoofers but also a few capable fullrange speakers. Is the LFE signal also distributed to the fullrange speakers or only kept with the woofers? Can you define that the fullranges also play LFE?


Thanks to anyone who can check that out!

i think there is some misunderstanding, the LFE signal is only ever sent to subwoofers, unless you enable bass duplication (a feature on some AVRs).

I think you mean support signals.

 

[juliangst]

Yeah, in normal AVRs (without a setting that sends LFE to mains) the LFE signal is only sent to subwoofers.
But this doesn't explain why with ART the LFE signal only get sent to one subwoofer and not all of them.

But I'm also unsure if there would even be a significant difference between "4 subs playing LFE and supporting each other" and "1 sub playing LFE and getting support from other subs"

 

[IamJF]

i think there is some misunderstanding, the LFE signal is only ever sent to subwoofers, unless you enable bass duplication (a feature on some AVRs).

I think you mean support signals.

No, I mean what I wrote

It's exaclty the case of "bass duplication" - how does ART react in that case?
My planned main speakers have 2x 12" or 10", the same ones I also use for woofers. With 3 of them in the front you get a nice bass array - when LFE is distributet correctly.

That's no standard use case, therefore I hope someone has first hand experience how Dirac/Storm handles that.

But I'm also unsure if there would even be a significant difference between "4 subs playing LFE and supporting each other" and "1 sub playing LFE and getting support from other subs"

Should be 12dB max SPL ... that is a BIG difference when you plan a system!

 

[juliangst]

There are probably some tricks you could do with Storn Audio‘s extensive bass management to get LFE playing on all subs but for normal AVRs and AVPs they should really address this issue

 

[IamJF]

Are we sure there IS an issue?

 

[juliangst]

‚issue’ sounds a bit extreme but it’s odd that ART only sends LFE to one sub while Bass Control and every other room correction software sends it to all subs

 

[IamJF]

If it really reacts that way (never heard from that behaviour before) I would deffinitely call it an issue! And a big one.

 

[juliangst]

This issue definitely seems to be real.
It’s discussed more extensively on this German forum:

Dirac ART - Active Room Treatment - Heimkinoverein

Ich bin sehr gespannt, wo der neue Ansatz von Dirac hinführt und finde, das ist ein eigenes Thema wert. Vielleicht fangen wir hiermit mal an... Artikel von Dr. Lars-Johan Brannmark (Dirac) in Audio Xpress:…

www.heimkinoverein.de

(Google translate should do the trick)

 

[TimoJ]

If it really reacts that way (never heard from that behaviour before) I would deffinitely call it an issue! And a big one.

Full LFE signal goes only to first subwoofer.

 

[abdo123]

‚issue’ sounds a bit extreme but it’s odd that ART only sends LFE to one sub while Bass Control and every other room correction software sends it to all subs

I get why though, otherwise they have to reinvent ART for the LFE channel.

If you think about it no other channel can be played by multiple speakers. LFE is the exception. and with ART you have no reason to play LFE equally on multiple subwoofers unless you build your space with traditional bass management methods in mind.

 

[TimoJ]

I get why though, otherwise they have to reinvent ART for the LFE channel.

If you think about it no other channel can be played by multiple speakers. LFE is the exception. and with ART you have no reason to play LFE equally on multiple subwoofers unless you build your space with traditional bass management methods in mind.

But they send bass managed low frequency signals to all subwoofers and add ART correction signal on top of that. What is there to reinvent if they did the same for LFE?

 

[IamJF]

(Google translate should do the trick)

Ich kann als Österreicher ja zum Glück relativ gut Deutsch ...auch wenn wir uns in der Wortwahl meist uneinig sind

Full LFE signal goes only to first subwoofer.

WHY?
You could still do a DBA with the front as 1 woofer and the back as 2nd woofer and ART will use it correctly?


What's happening in case there is no sub?

 

[IamJF]

If you think about it no other channel can be played by multiple speakers. LFE is the exception. and with ART you have no reason to play LFE equally on multiple subwoofers unless you build your space with traditional bass management methods in mind.

There is a huge reason to play your LFE over multiple subwoofers. Why do we use more than one woofer? Simply to get the SPL we need at these low frequencies. I use closed 10-12" drivers - you need a few of them to get the needed level at 20Hz.
I hoped with ART the system will use all of the woofers to produce sound and at the same time to chancell it - this would be huge for DBAs, double the amount of speakers to be active, instant 6dB more SPL (which could save quite some money during design).

 

[abdo123]

But they send bass managed low frequency signals to all subwoofers and add ART correction signal on top of that. What is there to reinvent if they did the same for LFE?

This doesn’t make sense. Are you sure?

Traditional bass management send bass managed signals to the “LFE” not to all subwoofers.