$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[MKR]

Axpona 2022 I put a bid on the demo's and the demonstrator told me that pair was fully active! I was less than excited to learn that and returned an offer more reflective of their passive demo prices and was outbid by another person at the show.

Hmmm, interesting. I do know Bill will do custom designs, so maybe that’s what these were

 

[GXAlan]

This is certainly one of the most thoughtful and well articulated posts I’ve read in some time. I’m a bit lost in what you’re trying to say though. Are you saying current measurements only tell a part of the story? And are therefore not scientific? I suppose it then comes to a debate on semantics, which seems to me, a waste of time. We are talking about audio equipment and not who wins a debate club argument in high school.

I cannot answer for @benanders but I believe I agree and understand.

The hypothesis that ASR essential has set, though not explicitly stated, is that audibly transparent electronics sound the best. Or audibly transparent do not sound different. Along those same lines, it’s speakers that have high preference scores sound the best. Or better stated, high speaker preference scores sound the best to the greatest proportion of potential customers.

The measurements are essential but Amir is the only person doing the green and yellow boxes by adding the subjective and comparing to the objective. XPL90 and TuneTot are two speakers where it sounded better to Amir that the measurements predicted. We also get speakers like the KEF R3 which Amir didn’t love despite great measurements. It doesn’t change the hypothesis that high preference scores correlated to high proportion of preference and in fact, the outliers being so rare only strengthen the data supporting the hypothesis but the loop back to figuring out why those speakers are outliers isn’t part of ASR.

Along the same lines, for electronics, the blind testing of straightwire with gain versus the 22 dB SINAD tube amp, largely tells us that electronics likely sound more alike than different. What is not well addressed are things like crosstalk, response into speaker loads, etc.

 

[MKR]

Sooo, time to let the cat out of the bag a bit … I have been in discussions with a VERY knowledgeable and science/measurement based speaker designer now for several months (he has been incredibly gracious answering my many, many questions, sometimes very stupid questions I have no doubt) about my preferences, listening impressions, his design philosophy, etc. Ultimately, he very kindly offered to ship a pair of demo speakers to me to try out! They should arrive in about one week.

The design is fully active, variable/controlled directivity, cardioid down to about 20Hz. Should be interesting

Will post my impressions after I have had some listening time

 

[dkinric]

Will there be any room correction during this audition period or are they just going to sit there raw?

 

[MKR]

Will there be any room correction during this audition period or are they just going to sit there raw?

Will audition with and without correction … Likely will use REW

 

[Esprit]

However for home theatre consumption - probably not a good idea.

I had a pair of 8361s for a month and watched a lot of movies in stereo on a 120" screen.
Zero problems sitting where I wanted. The sweet spot is really large.

 

[srrxr71]

I had a pair of 8361s for a month and watched a lot of movies in stereo on a 120" screen.
Zero problems sitting where I wanted. The sweet spot is really large.

Oh yeah it is. In fact when I first demoed 8351 it was 15 foot triangle. The image is unbelievable. So solid. It blew my mind.

My problem is my hunger for SPL.

 

[srrxr71]

In fact I would go further and say the optical illusion of a pair of 8341 or 8351 generating that sound field is life changing.

 

[Esprit]

My problem is my hunger for SPL.

Do you have the 8361?

 

[MattHooper]

Sooo, time to let the cat out of the bag a bit … I have been in discussions with a VERY knowledgeable and science/measurement based speaker designer now for several months (he has been incredibly gracious answering my many, many questions, sometimes very stupid questions I have no doubt) about my preferences, listening impressions, his design philosophy, etc. Ultimately, he very kindly offered to ship a pair of demo speakers to me to try out! They should arrive in about one week.

The design is fully active, variable/controlled directivity, cardioid down to about 20Hz. Should be interesting

Will post my impressions after I have had some listening time

Exciting, And sneaky - is that cat still in the bag or out? We need to consult Schrodinger.

 

[steve59]

I'll be surprised if it isn't Legacy. Of the brands I've owned or dealt with Bill D is the only owner to reach out personally to ask about my specific wishes as a potential customer. Revel was also amazing at dealing with me on a personal level, but I haven't heard anything about them going active.

 

[Ilkless]

The design is fully active, variable/controlled directivity, cardioid down to about 20Hz. Should be interesting

If it's Legacy, I find it peculiar that they talk a big talk about evidence-based engineering but one can't find a polar map anywhere. Cardioid performance is clear as day on a polar map, and I would except nothing less as a prospective client than a well-executed polar map as proof of cardioid to 20Hz.

 

[srrxr71]

Do you have the 8361?

Yes but also 8341 before it. That was impressive in how small it was. Yet how it created a solid soundfield.

 

[MKR]

If it's Legacy, I find it peculiar that they talk a big talk about evidence-based engineering but one can't find a polar map anywhere. Cardioid performance is clear as day on a polar map, and I would except nothing less as a prospective client than a well-executed polar map as proof of cardioid to 20Hz.

Well, you can rest easy then, it’s not Legacy

 

[Laserjock]

KEF LS60 get loud enough?

 

[srrxr71]

KEF LS60 get loud enough?

I doubt it from the specs. Sad that not that long ago you could walk into some Best Buy stores and audition them. Not anymore.

 

[MKR]

I'll be surprised if it isn't Legacy. Of the brands I've owned or dealt with Bill D is the only owner to reach out personally to ask about my specific wishes as a potential customer. Revel was also amazing at dealing with me on a personal level, but I haven't heard anything about them going active.

Nope, but “E” for effort

 

[MKR]

KEF LS60 get loud enough?

Nope

 

[MKR]

Exciting, And sneaky - is that cat still in the bag or out? We need to consult Schrodinger.

The cat IS the bag

 

[Deleted member 57150]

The cat IS the bag

Did not mean to be too crass earlier, or maybe I did, but why can't you name the brand of the speakers or the designer? It just feels like you are trying to toy with the audience here.