3000€ first HiFi system

[lkanies]

I mentioned the UMik because I saw on another threat that room correction is not to be neglected. Therefore the Denon AVR-X3800H you were speaking about looked like a good advice. I'm starting to be lost now guys.

to do room correction, you need either a DSP (almost everyone uses MiniDSP, but i assume there are others), or to modify the room itself. Ideally you will do both. Only bother with the mic once you have a plan for that.

R7 seems to be be replaced with R7 Meta and that new versions is much more expensive.

It does seem like the r7 is unavailable, and outside your budget at list price. I agree that these would be awesome if you can get a deal on them, or get them used. The lines below (r3 and r5) are also great. The Meta lines are basically just nicer versions of these speakers. Honestly, I think it would take a discerning ear and good room to consistently tell the difference between the R and Q lines, which are much cheaper.

On the topic of the DAC: are you only going to play directly from your computer? I pretty much only play music from my phone, nearly always streamed via Airplay. If you want that kind of flexibility, then choosing a Wiim Pro+ would be cheaper and more functional than the DAC (albeit no VU meters). It supports basically every kind of audio streaming method. I am also using it as my preamp in my listening room, because I have a couple of sources, and it’s like 100x better than the other things I tried (Gustard DAC and a MiniDSP SHD), because it auto switches inputs.

 

[kik]

All right so if I summarize, propositions for the DAC are Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 at 2000€ or MiniDSP (620€) + Apollon Hyper NCx500 ST for 1200€. The DSP + Apollon choise offers more power and I'll be happy to play with the room correction. I also like the idea to have separate component for different purpose.

Many of you are proposing the KEF speaker. I have auditioned some weeks ago the active KEF LS50 and found the sound very aggressive, very strident. I may give them another shot and try to listen other KEF models because the Wharfedale Lintons has too low WAF...

 

[DJBonoBobo]

You can get 2x Neumann KH150 + MA1 for 2,800 EUR. Add an interface of your choice and you have one of the most perfect systems available. Should be more than sufficient for your 27 sqm room.

 

[Koeitje]

For me yes. It still provides a lot of value/features for the price. You won't hear difference between x3600h vs the components you chose. Not at normal listening level anyway (the hypex can get maybe 3dB louder).

If the speakers can handle that.

 

[delta76]

I agree and that required that I change my posting .. completely.
Drop the Denon AVR and all the rest. You are not interested in tinkering. The miniDSP and UMik mentions had me thinking you wanted to.
You are in Europe. IMHO the best deal. A system that is close to set and forget;

Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 (Click here) 1500 euros. ( plus TVA/VTA). It comes with RoomPerfect that was favorably reviewed here
Kef R3 (or R7, Linton if you find a great deal) 1500 Euros.

Done.

Peace.

Can't say I think spending half of the budget on the dac/amp is a good idea. Think he should spend 2/3 of the budget on the speakers if not more. The rest for electronic.

 

[Phorize]

Regarding speakers: in that price range I'd personally go for either KEF R7 or Wharfedale Lintons (and save some money with the latter). Though maybe the vintage look is not your thing.

The room is 5m across and those are quite large speakers.

EDIT: although the Linton is alot of speaker for the money.

 

[Svet Angelov]

The room is 5m across and those are quite large speakers.

EDIT: although the Linton is alot of speaker for the money.

I think it'll be fine, as long as bass modes are handled, which it sounds like they will be. 27m2 or 5m across should be plenty. And oh yes it is a LOT of speaker for the money. Can be had for 1000 euros incl. stands here in the Netherlands. Brand new!!

 

[Phorize]

Hi

Compelled to reply. Excellent Budget. It could even include everything to be happy for a long while. Longtime audiophile... here. My recent i system is the best I have had during my 50+ years as an audiophile. It is also the least expensive. Calling it "cheap" would be proper.
I would strongly suggest to center your system around a Denon AVR. We'll come to the why "Denon" specifically, later*. You can find AVR-X3500, 3600, 3700 for less than 1000 Euros, in immaculate shape.
You are left with 2500 Euros...
Get a miniDSP 2x4 HD + the Umik-1 Microphone, 400 euros? Perhaps Less
From there, you have a large choice bof speakers. I would suggest Kef R3 a sure bet.. about 1400 euros/pair
Get the Audyssey MultEQ-X Windows App, about 150 euros...
*At this point in time only Denon and Marantz AVR run Audyssey...
Download REW.

You then take a breath, think about a pair of inexpensive subwoofers, if you go for subwoofers, download MSO... and prepare yourself for a journey. The destination is a superior audio system that would belie its price and all the talk you hear, see or read in so many audio magazines, fora, websites, YouTube videos...

More on this later

Yes.

Peace.

At last a sane and complete suggestion. I was worried this thread was heading down the usual path of just listing stuff.

 

[Phorize]

It may be worth checking the prices of the JBL 4329 P in your area. F3 @30HZ, lots of power, decent directivity, built in streaming and can take usb input from an rpi running moode/Camilla DSP. Just take your measurements in REW, export as convolution eq file and import into moode and proceed to rock out.

 

[delta76]

At last a sane and complete suggestion. I was worried this thread was heading down the usual path of just listing stuff.

that is actually expected (And a good thing IMO). people have different opinions of how to spend the 3000 EUR for the best sound. Most are valid. Many are good. There is no best option, only the most suitable option for OP with regards to availability, looks and feels, WAF

 

[Davide]

I would get a Sabaj A30A (with integrated DAC) and with the money saved I would get better speakers and above all a correction system like Dirac.

 

[delta76]

I would get a Sabaj A30A (with integrated DAC) and with the money saved I would get better speakers and above all a correction system like Dirac.

the question is how you implement dirac? you need both hardware and software (license), and it's more than what you "saved" with A30A

 

[Kervel]

Just my 2cents. Get a minidsp flex with Dirac upgrade+ Unmik (800 euro or so), a 200 euro Aiyima power amp (for example, see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/aiyima-a08-pro-amplifier-review.38720/ )
Then 2 cheap 10 or 12 inch sealed subs (600 or so), and the rest for any speaker like kef r3 (narrow dispersion), or focal/Linton (wide dispersion)

 

[Davide]

the question is how you implement dirac? you need both hardware and software (license), and it's more than what you "saved" with A30A

He's a computer user, so a PC/Mac as source and to host DRC, is the most convenient setup in my opinion.
Then a decent integrated amp with built in DAC and USB input is everything is needed on the electronic side.
The rest is better spent on diffusers and room treatment.

 

[benanders]

Hi, I am going to purchase my first HiFi system and I’d like your opinion for getting the best out of my 3000€-3500€ budget.

I have all my music in FLAC locally on my computer. I’m in apartment with neighbours upside and below me, and the living room, where the system would be installed, is 27m2.
After 2 months of intensively reading product reviews and trying to understand the important of each component, I noticed that speakers and room correction software are important. DAC, amplifier, and cables come after. Therefore, my choice is:

• DAC: EverSolo DAC-Z6 for 450€. Seems decent, has USB inputs and VU meters.
• Power amp: Apollon Hyper NCx500 ST for 1200€. Low noise level and delivers 380W @ 8ohm.
• miniDSP's UMIK-1 for 100€ for the room measurement
• Speakers: with the remaining budget, I could go for:
  • MA Silver 200 7G for 1700€
  • Dali Opticon 6 MKII for 2000€
  • Focal Theva N°3 for 1700 €

My question here are:

• Does all of that is a coherent choice?
• Which speakers would you recommend?
• Is that amp “too” powerful for my relatively small room and speakers, and my damage them?
• The room correction software has to be installed on my computer, right? I saw the Room Measurement Tutorial for Dummies but I don’t understand how and where the correction part happens.

Thanks !

Good clear post. Welcome into the rabbit hole.

Could use more info to attract more pinpoint recommendations (no offense to the range this far posted). I know answering questions with more questions is unbecoming, but, that’s how inquiry-based learning goes best. So here goes.
What is the composition of the apartment walls/ceiling/floor - drywall? Concrete? Something else? Because you mentioned neighbors all around.
Starting with subwoofers, paired with the kinds of speakers you listed, would be the incorrect approach. Listen without subs, play with some DSP, then consider subs down the road if you wind up in an abandoned apartment complex.

$3-3500€ can buy a lot; will you stop there? How much more might you (or could/would you) possibly decide to spend in the future? Are you an upgrade-bug sorta person?

Why buy an MQA-capable DAC if your preferred file format is FLAC? That software license is a chunk of what you’re paying for in that device. There are more cost-effective routes for USB DAC’s given your main file preference. I use USB DAC’s and, blindfolded, I probably couldn’t tell you the difference between the $100 unit and the $1K unit (both models measured well on ASR) here.

If you still start with a USB DAC, perhaps cut your teeth with basic PC/Mac software (some free 30-day trials out there)? UMIK’s can work with various USB devices/software, not only miniDSP, so you should be safe there.

I’m not familiar with the amp you mention, but amp power should be considered based on your space and your speakers…

That’s trickier. Speakers cover so many bases of how your music files turn into physical energy you enjoy that, to analogize, I’d muse nothing in a sports car matters if the suspension and the five wheels don’t handle thrillingly. That’s your speakers job.
Are you somewhere you can go listen to a handful of different models in person? That won’t necessarily tell you much about how anything will sound in your room, but you can get an idea of the variation in sound among models/brands. It’s a great frame of reference to have when making your selection.

How do you plan to listen to music? Sitting in one place at the apex of an imaginary but oh-so-consequential triangle? How loud on average do you listen? How flexible is your room layout to achieve that (some help from DSP can be had, but that only goes so far)? Do you tend to grow bored with same-y stuff? What appearance(s) is your partner comfortable with in “statement” furniture?

Answers to some of those questions would be a good way to start sifting through more applicable recommendations. With the presently available info, I don’t think it would be useful for me to suggest specific brands / models. Hopefully that’s clearer than mud.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I haven't had the time to read all replies, so i will likely just repeat what others said.

Hi, I am going to purchase my first HiFi system and I’d like your opinion for getting the best out of my 3000€-3500€ budget.

A very solid budget.

I have all my music in FLAC locally on my computer.

So did i until recently. Then i finally tried Spotify and now i discover new stuff all the time.
I highly recommend it to buying CD.

I’m in apartment with neighbours upside and below me, and the living room, where the system would be installed, is 27m2.

Hope you don't have paper walls, for your neighbors sake ;-)

After 2 months of intensively reading product reviews and trying to understand the important of each component, I noticed that speakers and room correction software are important. DAC, amplifier, and cables come after.

Agreed.

• DAC: EverSolo DAC-Z6 for 450€. Seems decent, has USB inputs and VU meters.

There are other ways to get a VU meter. I'll come back to the DAC.

• Power amp: Apollon Hyper NCx500 ST for 1200€. Low noise level and delivers 380W @ 8ohm.

Excellent choice, as good as it gets. You will likely never use it's power, so it might be worth it to look if that amp comes in a smaller variant to save some money.

• miniDSP's UMIK-1 for 100€ for the room measurement

Yes.

• Speakers: with the remaining budget, I could go for:
  • MA Silver 200 7G for 1700€
  • Dali Opticon 6 MKII for 2000€
  • Focal Theva N°3 for 1700 €

Excellent speakers, all of them. Buy used to save money.

• Does all of that is a coherent choice?

Except for the DAC.
I bought a MiniDSP Flex, which basically is a DSP/DAC digital/analog preamp. I have connected a phono preamp to analog, a tablet, mobile phone and laptop to Bluetooth LDAC, a TV to the optical input, a RPi Zero2 as a streamer via USB and a CD player on Coax.
You would use your computers USB instead of the RPi streamer i use.

Output goes into a Yamaha A-S1200, but i had it running with a NC252MP based power amp too and it worked fine.
Oh, and it does the DSP stuff too, even runs Dirac if you pay 200€ for the license ;-).

• Which speakers would you recommend?

The ones you can test and give back, or buy used so you can sell them on if you don't like them, without wasting money.
I tested more than 10 pairs of speakers this year for a few weeks each, ended up with the Linton 85.
I can recommend the KEF R3 and Linton 85 without buts and ifs, kept the Lintons because they just draw a wide stereo effect into my room, no matter where i sit. The KEFs had more of a laser focus image, but i had only a small sweet spot.
I also have two subwoofers to get the last octaves, but that is optional, i can enjoy music very without as well.

• Is that amp “too” powerful for my relatively small room and speakers, and my damage them?

Yes, you may be able to damage speakers with that amp, if you overdo it. But your neighbors will keep you in check. ;-)
I don't think too much power hurts, except your wallet.

• The room correction software has to be installed on my computer, right? I saw the Room Measurement Tutorial for Dummies but I don’t understand how and where the correction part happens.

Yes, if you buy that DAC you have somehow to do it in your source. If you connect other sources they may or may not be able to do simple PEQ.
I prefer DSP functionality to be available always, so the MiniDSP Flex is what i bought. It seemed pricey at first, but now i think it's cheap for what it does.

Thanks !

Cherio

MiniDSP Flex at the top, looks a bit better in real life:

The black ones are the KEF R3, the large ones the Wharfedale Lintons 85:

 

[Willem]

Alternatively, investigate the DSPeaker X2 to see if the limited input options are sufficient for you.

 

[delta76]

A mini amp like the Aiyima AO7 for 60 euros has a 1000 times better transient response (1ug) than an average internal soundbar amp (1 millisecond). And even 10-20 times faster than a 300 euro hifi amplifier from Yamaha/NAD/Marantz. You want an amp with less than 2ug. Then you force the amp to use high-quality components that are capable of reproducing very fast transients. This proves that the amplifier uses high-frequency transistors, high-quality epensive, quick and big capacitors, and resistors with low inductance.

this does seem like a response generated by ChatGPT @AdamG247

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

My suggestion:

Sabaj a30a + Magnat Signature 707.
As player Neutron player (smartphone).

 

[AdamG]

this does seem like a response generated by ChatGPT @AdamG247

Maybe so. How do you propose that we are able to prove or disprove this? Complicating matters you did not provide a username in your quote.