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Advice request - My first hifi system
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terryforsythe
Major Contributor
It depends. I use Dirac Live in my family room, and it does a good job. In my office I just use PEQ (CamillaDSP), and it sounds great.
Here is Floyd Toole's take on IIR and FIR room correction:
Some comments from Floyd Toole about room curve targets, room EQ and more
Room curve targets Every so often it is good to review what we know about room curves, targets, etc. Almost 50 years of double-blind listening tests have shown persuasively that listeners like loudspeakers with flat, smooth, anechoic on-axis and listening-window frequency responses. Those with...
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I think the TL;DR of that is limit the room EQ to under Schroeder.Here is Floyd Toole's take on IIR and FIR room correction:
Some comments from Floyd Toole about room curve targets, room EQ and more
Room curve targets Every so often it is good to review what we know about room curves, targets, etc. Almost 50 years of double-blind listening tests have shown persuasively that listeners like loudspeakers with flat, smooth, anechoic on-axis and listening-window frequency responses. Those with...
terryforsythe
Major Contributor
My link highlights only 13 lines of text, which apparently you did not read.
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I did, and I still have the same conclusion. The room EQ does incorrect things to "correct" the response above Schroeder. Below Schroeder, those issues do not apply. What am I missing?My link highlights only 13 lines of text, which apparently you did not read.
terryforsythe
Major Contributor
In the highlighted passage:
"I won't go into the details of my history with this unit, but it began with a setup procedure, using their proprietary microphone, spatial averaging with weighted mic locations, and allusions to combined IIR and FIR processing promising a very special result."
"... It is part of a mighty struggle to be different or distinctive in a product that delivers something that nowadays many people can do for themselves with off-the-shelf DSP, free measurement software and a $100 mic."
if I may, as I too often see written by those who are starting out, the starting point is reversed.
The speakers and the listening environment are the main point, the amplifier must be at the height of the speakers, therefore be able to drive them adequately based on their placement and the size of the room, the rest are listening preferences.
I see that you cite the source and some amplifiers, but I have not read anything about the speakers.
Is the room large, small, very furnished, unfurnished, will the placement of the speakers be free or forced into a predetermined area?
This is fundamental for the choice: small or large speakers, floor or stand? if forced into an unfortunate area, it will be crucial to use EQ or DSP...
in addition to this, you will need to know whether an amplifier with greater or lesser power will be necessary, and technical characteristics adequate to the use of the chosen speaker.
Having said that, go and listen to speakers, get an idea of what you like: the speakers are the voice of your system, then when you identify them, build the upstream system that will be suitable for the purpose.
OP
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Thank you for your advice.
You are absolutely right.
At the time I wrote my post, I had some research regarding source and amplifier, and only a decision regarding the speakers type (floor standing).
The room is 21 sqm (226 sq ft), not excessively furnished, with big windows (almost a full side). Depending on how I place my furniture, not many options possible, a speaker could be on a corner close the window.
I thought it was important to set first the electronic and match the speakers accordingly, in order to make them working harmonously.
I listed around a dozen of speakers in the category 2000-2500€. Given the lack of availability or the distance from dealers, If I can listen to the half of those, I am happy.
In looking at the power of power-amps and the continuos power in Watt/RMS, I fully realized, how important is to start with a clear target speaker.
E.g. one of those in my list has 92 dB sensitivity requires amps with 60-300Watt and has 140 Watt RMS of continuous power. This implies that I have to exclude from my watch-list the amps Hypex NC502MP and NCx500 as too powerful with 350W and 380W respectively, but also the NC252MP as too less powerful with 150W, if the rule-of thumb "power the amp 50-100% higher than continuous power of speakers" still applies.
If so, maybe 2 monoblocks NC500MP (270W) or a Purifi module (230W)?
You are absolutely right.
At the time I wrote my post, I had some research regarding source and amplifier, and only a decision regarding the speakers type (floor standing).
The room is 21 sqm (226 sq ft), not excessively furnished, with big windows (almost a full side). Depending on how I place my furniture, not many options possible, a speaker could be on a corner close the window.
I thought it was important to set first the electronic and match the speakers accordingly, in order to make them working harmonously.
I listed around a dozen of speakers in the category 2000-2500€. Given the lack of availability or the distance from dealers, If I can listen to the half of those, I am happy.
In looking at the power of power-amps and the continuos power in Watt/RMS, I fully realized, how important is to start with a clear target speaker.
E.g. one of those in my list has 92 dB sensitivity requires amps with 60-300Watt and has 140 Watt RMS of continuous power. This implies that I have to exclude from my watch-list the amps Hypex NC502MP and NCx500 as too powerful with 350W and 380W respectively, but also the NC252MP as too less powerful with 150W, if the rule-of thumb "power the amp 50-100% higher than continuous power of speakers" still applies.
If so, maybe 2 monoblocks NC500MP (270W) or a Purifi module (230W)?
terryforsythe
Major Contributor
How much power you need depends on many things. Rather than using a "rule of thumb", I suggest using the following spreadsheet to determine how much power you actually need:
Amplifier Power Requirement
Input your parameters in the yellow boxes. The spreadsheet calculates how much amplifier power you actually will need. If that power exceeds the power rating of the speaker, then choose a different speaker.
terryforsythe
Major Contributor
Too much power is not a bad thing. That is why there is volume control. Just don't crank it up so loud that you will blow your speakers. No reason to exclude those amplifiers from your watch list.
There may be a benefit to using an amplifier that it not being pushed to its limits - some amplifiers run hotter when pushed at full power, and this can have a negative affect on some of the internal components.
That being said, price typically is an important factor for most people. Assuming it also is important to you, don't go crazy.
A speaker's max wattage is more an indication of a limit before damage (and possibly at a point where they're no longer sounding good)....a minimum wattage is just somewhat silly. As mentioned, you can easily buy a more powerful amp, doesn't mean you're required to send the max power to your speakers (and generally would be easily controlled by common sense with a volume control). Sensitivity is a better guide to amp needs, tho. Not sure what you would do to set electronics/speakers for "working harmoniously", sounds like some audiophile nonsense. The hypex/purifi module amps are a good way to go, tho.
Carlton80@0
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My advice is to add room treatment to your budget and search for speakers that appeal to your Sonic desires. Save loads of money in the used market. Some individuals change gear like underwear. Most of all don’t put a lot of thought into the journey as it can impede your outcome of being able to enjoy the illusion.
Matt_Holland
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With your budget I wouldn’t be able to look past Buchardt S400mk2 and the SUB10. Total for both being €3,400. I’d then add a Wiim Ultra and a very powerful Purify/Hypex amp from Audiophonics. All companies have excellent customer service I’m told.
The S400mk2 are one of my favourite speakers ever. Data can be found here
They measure very well and are absolutely sublime sounding to my ears. Natural and slightly warm balance with very realistic soundstaging and instrumental timbre. On their own they possibly have enough bass for your room size, but the SUB10 would be the cherry on top. The Wiim Ultra EQ and bass management should be adequate used alongside Room EQ Wizard. Even the House Curve app can get you going.
The S400mk2 are one of my favourite speakers ever. Data can be found here
They measure very well and are absolutely sublime sounding to my ears. Natural and slightly warm balance with very realistic soundstaging and instrumental timbre. On their own they possibly have enough bass for your room size, but the SUB10 would be the cherry on top. The Wiim Ultra EQ and bass management should be adequate used alongside Room EQ Wizard. Even the House Curve app can get you going.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
Both those information sources are trying to sell you something. Take what they say with a
The only synergy between an amp and speakers is, does the amp have enough grunt to drive the speakers at the sound level you need.
Like I said, audiophile nonsense.
In general people say this because it's far more often that people destroy speakers because of under-powered amps.
With an overpowered amp you "calibrate" it once by setting pre-amp/source to 100% volume and then setting the amp to a volume where you don't overload the speakers and from then you never touch the amp volume again.
Also having some headroom is useful always.
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