Buying my first proper system - am I on the right track?

[jinza]

Hey everyone, I'm in the process of setting up my first home theatre system in our open-plan living room/kitchen & I'd appreciate any advice.
I have to work with some limitations so it would be great to know if I'm on the right track. (Location: Netherlands)

Listening Habits:
60% music (a mix of genres) - Spotify Connect is a must
40% TV / Films (a mix of styles)
Mostly low to medium volume with bass turned to 50% (also listening to music from different parts of the room)

Current Situation:
We currently have a Yamaha YAS-207 2.1 sound bar/sub and the bass is deep enough (down to 33 Hz) but the rest is lacking. Also we're often turning the volume up to hear dialogue then down again when a loud scene plays. For this reason, I'm thinking at minimum a L, R & centre channel system to hear dialogue easier.

The Room:
Living room (LxWxH) 5.1 x 4 x 2.5 m (20.6 m2 / 51 m3)
Adjoining dining/kitchen 2.9 x 4.2 x 2.5 m (12.3 m2 / 30.4 m3)
Total (both rooms combined) 32.9 m2 / 81.4 m3
Distance between seating position on couch & L/R speakers: 4.2 m
Maximum distance between L & R speakers: 2.4 m

Limitations:
- Budget €2,000 ideally, can stretch to €3,000
- TV & other furniture can't be moved
- WAF: Speakers which aesthetically blend with the space (white/grey/wood), aren't too big and don't stick out into the room
- Only guaranteed place for a sub is the corner left of the TV unit. Due to radiator pipes, max sub depth is 39 cm
- We have a toddler, so childproof (i.e. grilles) is important
- Acoustic room treatment limited (potential for acoustic panels to go on the tall radiators L & R of the windows).

Plan:
I know floor-standing speakers +/- a sub or two would be ideal for the size of the space, but I value my marriage, plus we almost never listen at high volume so we settled on small wall-mounted bookshelves + a sub. Also, aiming for a centre channel that's not gigantic (plan to upgrade the TV unit & the TV from 48" to 55", mount it on the wall with enough space for a centre channel speaker underneath).

Speakers: Oberon 1?
After much research, based on sound quality, dispersion/off-axis performance, size and aesthetic, I decided to test-listen the KEF Q1 Meta and the Dali Oberon 1. I wanted to also test the Oberon on-wall, however, it wasn't available. Due to our current low-to-medium level listening, satisfaction with the depth/power of our current Yamaha sub and smaller form factor, I decided to test them with the KEF Kube 10 Mie and the KEF KC62. I enjoyed the sound of both models and was especially impressed by the volume & bass they put out, especially considering the limited reflections of the giant showroom. While the Q1 had slightly better imaging both on and off-axis, I was surprised to enjoy the the Oberon 1 just about as much. The Oberon's smaller form factor, tougher grille, WAF aesthetic and smaller price tag (currently €305 for a pair) makes it the winner for me. Plus the Oberon Vokal fits the bill as a centre channel. And FYI, I didn't even try the Opticon 1 as it's almost 3x the price.

Sub: SVS Micro 3000?
I enjoyed the sound of both subs, but I liked the KC62 more for its "tightness" and how it more seamlessly merged with the bookshelves; important as it properly fills out the low-mids lacking in the smaller bookshelves. However, for a lower price tag and more childproofing (grille), I'm thinking the SVS 3000 Micro is a better option. I found an open-box deal for €989.

AV Receiver: Denon AVR-X3700H?
Auto-on (turning on TV turns on receiver & sub) & eARC (TV remote controls receiver volume) should work well. Based on the limitations mentioned above combined with a reflective room, I'm thinking quality room correction is a must. I don't mind if it takes a while to set up, but the PEQ should ideally change modes automatically when switching between TV and music. Between Dirac Live, Audyssey and REW, I'm thinking Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is the sweet spot, balancing ease of use with quality, especially as it's a step up (in tuning bass) from MultEQ XT. The Denon AVR-X3700H seems to fulfil all my needs. At 105 W/C I think it's overkill, but it's the lowest-powered Denon AVR with MultEQ XT32. I have the chance to buy one second-hand (in good shape) for just €550 (minus calibration mic).

Rear Channel Speakers:
Rear or surrounds would be nice, however, I wonder if they would even be worth it considering placement would be limited to the top corners. Can you still hear the rear channels okay in the mix if they're up in the top corners? I'd be seated almost centrally, at least. (my wife, normally seated in the corner of the couch doesn't care so much for surround/sound)

Proposed Setup:
Dali Oberon 1: €305
Denon AVR-X3700H + calibration mic: €600
SVS 3000 Micro: €989
Cables: €50
Total: €1,944

Finishing Questions:
- Does the Oberon 1 / Vokal seem like a good fit? Or are there other models I should consider?
- Are the Oberon on-walls comparative to the bookshelf versions? Is it worth giving them a listen?
- Could the Oberon 5 have enough bass without a subwoofer? At 39 Hz, they're not far above the capacity of our current sub (33 Hz) so I wonder if at low-med listening levels with a centre channel to take some of the strain, we might not need a sub. Also looks nicer IMO & easier to set up. Potential case to bring to my wife. Might be able to hide a small sub in the opposite corner later on if we want to upgrade the bass.
- Are surrounds even worth considering if they have to squeeze into the top corners almost in-line with our ears?
- At the listening distance of 4.2 m with L & R channels just 2.4 m apart, could a phantom centre suffice? Or would a centre channel be better for hearing clear dialogue at low listening levels?
- Is the X3700H overkill? Is MultEQ XT32 really worth it or is there another room correction option that allows a smaller AVR with less power, saving me money & TV unit real estate?
- Is the SVS 3000 Micro appropriate for the speakers/room? Is a €1,000 sub overkill for €305 speakers? Is there a cheaper/second-hand alternative which might be more suited? Max depth must be 39 cm.

Thanks for reading my essay (I know, it's a lot). And thanks in advance for any help you're able to give!

 

[Oddball]

Lot to digest. Not a wholistic answer, but some comments.

4.2 m distance from TV and speakers is quite large. You loose a lots of video detail and immersion at such distance. Also, need to play speakers louder as further away. Not sure if somehow you could rearrange the room to shorten that distance. Obviously a living room so if this is the only way, then it is what it is.

I would suggest to spend larger part of the budget on speakers. They are after all the most important part of the system. Not expert for speakers in this price range but sure some members will chime in.

Would suggest center speaker as well given the distance to MLP and size of the room. Should help with more clear dialogue across the sofa. You can try with just LR, but ready to buy center if needed. Ideally all speakers should be from same manufacturer/series. Not many speakers could "replace" the sub, so if you like the base, sub is probably a better solution.

Not a great situation for surrounds, so perhaps pass on them and think about it later.

Sub is pretty small for the room and if you put it 4.2 m from the listening position, you will loose a lot of impact. Putting it next to sofa would be a much better idea. Subs work best in terms of frequency response only in certain locations in the room. Given your room is not symmetrical, difficult to say where these positions would be. Also, did you think of ported sub or set your mind on sealed? Ported could potentially give some more output at the low end.

AVR is good and looks like a good value. You will also need D&M Audy app for $20 to tune in the system more flexibly than with just AVR.

Good luck with the project.

 

[BossBunos]

Hi fellow dutchman, always exciting to get a new set up! What probably many others will tell you here is that the speakers make by far the most impact on sound quality (since room acoustics can't be changed in your situation). So personally I would spend way more on the LR channels and less on the rest. After speakers I would definitely add EQ to my system because that has a huge impact.
Maybe start off with a good stereo set + sub and if you want more expand to AVR+surround.
For bookshelves I would consider in order of preference:
- the new ascilabs C6B (or F6B if you really have to work the budget)
- Revel m16 or m106 (currently one on marktplaats for about 500)
- focal aria 906
- Elac DBR62

Subwoofer:
- I think your pick for the svs micro3000 is pretty solid
- xtz sub
- arendal sub
All those subs are widely available in Europe

Amp/AVR:
Personally I would start with good stereo amp with dsp capabilities that also supports and output/crossover for a subwoofer. The WiiM amp Pro comes to mind at 450eu. Or maybe a minidsp Flex 2x4 for multi sub and a proper power amp like one of the purifi options or the 3e a7. But that will be more expensive. Audiophonics sells some good 'budget friendly' hifi amps.

Your space is not really small so I definitely think you'll need a subwoofer. Not sure where you live in the Netherlands but feel free to contact me via a PM. I have a similar layout but slightly larger.

Good luck!

 

[Multicore]

Also we're often turning the volume up to hear dialogue then down again when a loud scene plays.

I know this problem well. Better speakers might not make any better, or not much. It was still a problem here even with good full-range tower speakers. For us what really fixed it was EQ that handled the room's bass modes. Now we have a MiniDSP Flex with Dirac Live and the fatigue and ineligibility problems are gone.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from getting nice speakers but it might not enough.

 

[ZolaIII]

Towing speakers out and putting sub's to the wall is solution if you can go that way. Even so redistribute budget to more serious mains, even at 3 m I would go with let's say Linton's and pair of budget 12" sub's. At over 4.2 m I would go with 100" screen at least and resolution becomes to be less important over that distance. Those Denon's at least have Dynamic EQ which is equal loudness compensation, of course it's also source dependant but good luck with it. There whose third party app for costume targets (can't remember name). Problem is how most cinematic content is not really optimised for home systems and it's rather hard to find deacent central speaker but simple compressor or EQ do the trick even without it (and Linton's are three way). Please do consider bigger, thicker rug and curtains over glass surfaces. If you want buy a UMIK-1 and play with REW.
Edit: also if that's not you standing comfortably behind the sectional sofa please move it a little bit from back wall.

 

[jinza]

Hi fellow dutchman, always exciting to get a new set up! What probably many others will tell you here is that the speakers make by far the most impact on sound quality (since room acoustics can't be changed in your situation). So personally I would spend way more on the LR channels and less on the rest. After speakers I would definitely add EQ to my system because that has a huge impact.
Maybe start off with a good stereo set + sub and if you want more expand to AVR+surround.
For bookshelves I would consider in order of preference:
- the new ascilabs C6B (or F6B if you really have to work the budget)
- Revel m16 or m106 (currently one on marktplaats for about 500)
- focal aria 906
- Elac DBR62

Subwoofer:
- I think your pick for the svs micro3000 is pretty solid
- xtz sub
- arendal sub
All those subs are widely available in Europe

Amp/AVR:
Personally I would start with good stereo amp with dsp capabilities that also supports and output/crossover for a subwoofer. The WiiM amp Pro comes to mind at 450eu. Or maybe a minidsp Flex 2x4 for multi sub and a proper power amp like one of the purifi options or the 3e a7. But that will be more expensive. Audiophonics sells some good 'budget friendly' hifi amps.

Your space is not really small so I definitely think you'll need a subwoofer. Not sure where you live in the Netherlands but feel free to contact me via a PM. I have a similar layout but slightly larger.

Good luck!

Hey! I'm actually from Australia but saddled up over here with a Dutch girl, but nice to know you're not far away. I'm in Hoofddorp, which area are you?

Thanks for recommending those speakers - they all no doubt would sound great, just might be a bit bulky to mount on the wall. The Elac DBR62 looks epic, but I just know my toddler will try to hang off the front port.

After more research, I decided to trial a pair of Dali Oberon 5s. They fit the bill aesthetically, they're not too large, they have a tough grill and they may put out enough bass for our listening habits (can add a small sub later, if needed). I found an open box deal for 698 euros for the pair with 60 a days return policy, so I can test them out for a while.

Now for the amp...I'm questioning whether I go for Denon with Audyssey XT32 and potential for a centre channel +/- surrounds, a Wiim Amp Pro or a streamer + DSP + amp.
I could always start with the Denon, test out a center channel, and if there are room issues that Audyssey isn't able to resolve or the quality is lacking, I could always resell it and upgrade.

Do you think I'd really notice the lower sound quality of the Denon compared to higher quality amps & room correction, considering the Oberon 5s, our listening habits and the room?

Either way, based on the room with lots of window and reflective surfaces and minimal acoustic treatment options, I think good EQ is a must. I'm struggling to find good information on the Wiim Amp Pro EQ, other than that it has 10 bands, HPF, LPF & crossover control. Do you think this would be enough for Oberon 5s + a sub in the room, or would I be better off with more control?

Wiim Ultra + MiniDSP + a small simple amp seems like good options too, and would allow for good upgrading of speakers in the future too. Any small amps which you might recommend?

 

[BossBunos]

Hey! I'm actually from Australia but saddled up over here with a Dutch girl, but nice to know you're not far away. I'm in Hoofddorp, which area are you?

Thanks for recommending those speakers - they all no doubt would sound great, just might be a bit bulky to mount on the wall. The Elac DBR62 looks epic, but I just know my toddler will try to hang off the front port.

After more research, I decided to trial a pair of Dali Oberon 5s. They fit the bill aesthetically, they're not too large, they have a tough grill and they may put out enough bass for our listening habits (can add a small sub later, if needed). I found an open box deal for 698 euros for the pair with 60 a days return policy, so I can test them out for a while.

Now for the amp...I'm questioning whether I go for Denon with Audyssey XT32 and potential for a centre channel +/- surrounds, a Wiim Amp Pro or a streamer + DSP + amp.
I could always start with the Denon, test out a center channel, and if there are room issues that Audyssey isn't able to resolve or the quality is lacking, I could always resell it and upgrade.

Do you think I'd really notice the lower sound quality of the Denon compared to higher quality amps & room correction, considering the Oberon 5s, our listening habits and the room?

Either way, based on the room with lots of window and reflective surfaces and minimal acoustic treatment options, I think good EQ is a must. I'm struggling to find good information on the Wiim Amp Pro EQ, other than that it has 10 bands, HPF, LPF & crossover control. Do you think this would be enough for Oberon 5s + a sub in the room, or would I be better off with more control?

Wiim Ultra + MiniDSP + a small simple amp seems like good options too, and would allow for good upgrading of speakers in the future too. Any small amps which you might recommend?

I think the WiiM provides sufficient EQ. I have the wiim pro streamer and the EQ is fine 10 bands per channel. I live in region Castricum. 25 minute drive. I would honestly go for the wiim. They have just released the Wiim amp ultra as well. The same screen as the streamer and double the power of the previous amp. I also have a minidsp SHD but that's way more expensive and doesn't offer much more functionality for your scenario.

 

[jinza]

I think the WiiM provides sufficient EQ. I have the wiim pro streamer and the EQ is fine 10 bands per channel. I live in region Castricum. 25 minute drive. I would honestly go for the wiim. They have just released the Wiim amp ultra as well. The same screen as the streamer and double the power of the previous amp. I also have a minidsp SHD but that's way more expensive and doesn't offer much more functionality for your scenario.

Thanks for your solid advice. I’m going to go for the amp pro or amp ultra. Seems like the Ultra has more power and upgraded WiFi and Bluetooth but I can’t see much more that’s changed. Any idea if there are other benefits?

If not, I’ll go for the amp pro which has the added benefit of not having a screen (I find it gimmicky and a distraction, especially for my child who I’m trying to introduce music to and disassociate it from screens)

 

[Marc v E]

Thanks for your solid advice. I’m going to go for the amp pro or amp ultra. Seems like the Ultra has more power and upgraded WiFi and Bluetooth but I can’t see much more that’s changed. Any idea if there are other benefits?

If not, I’ll go for the amp pro which has the added benefit of not having a screen (I find it gimmicky and a distraction, especially for my child who I’m trying to introduce music to and disassociate it from screens)

If I could add my 2 cents worth, if you get a bit of distance between the couch and the wall, you get less reflections and thus clearer sound. 30 cm could already give an improvement.
Same regarding placing speakers from the wall.

Personally with the challenging room layout, I would start doing some experiments with speakers and couch to see what's going on before comitting on speakers and amp.
Ime you would make the sound a lot better if you moved the couch forward for at least 1 meter possibly 1,5 ; 1 option is to create a place for the dog behind the couch. Then your direct sound vs reflected sound improves a lot. That's where I would start. Then get a minidsp mic and measure what's going on.

My hunch is that what makes your movie speech harder to hear is the omission of a center channel.
Ime it's probably getting worse because the distance between the speakers and you is not a triangle with equal sides, thus the sound bounces of the walls a lot before it reaches your ears.
Same regarding placing the couch directly against the wall. The direct sound bouces of the wall and what reaches you ears is muffled due to all the reflections.

The most likely solution is moving the couch a bit, center channel + avr, but best is to experiment, listen and if possible, measure with a minidsp mic to see what you have now and what can be improved.

 

[Marc v E]

Regarding your questions:

Finishing Questions:
- Does the Oberon 1 / Vokal seem like a good fit? Or are there other models I should consider?

Imo it is worth it to invest a bit more, say 500 to 800 for a pair to get really good quality sound. Under 500 there are usually some quality corners cut. I would suggest to listen to the Elac dbr62 or order an Ascilab speaker.

If budget is tight I would suggest Sonos. Their speakers are fun to listen to and pretty solid and good looking.

- Are the Oberon on-walls comparative to the bookshelf versions? Is it worth giving them a listen?

The closer a speaker is to a wall, the more boomy and less clear the sound becomes ime. I would suggest to keep them at least 30 to preferably 50 cm from the wall.
Some speakers are designed to be placed closer to the wall, but it's still a compromise ime.

- Could the Oberon 5 have enough bass without a subwoofer? At 39 Hz, they're not far above the capacity of our current sub (33 Hz) so I wonder if at low-med listening levels with a centre channel to take some of the strain, we might not need a sub. Also looks nicer IMO & easier to set up. Potential case to bring to my wife. Might be able to hide a small sub in the opposite corner later on if we want to upgrade the bass.

I expect a tower speaker to introduce more problems than solving them unfortunately.
If you have a challenging room you are better of with bookshelf sized speakers and subs.

- Are surrounds even worth considering if they have to squeeze into the top corners almost in-line with our ears?

Not sure. If you move the couch from the wall, it might be good. I would expect you sit in the middle of the couch and have at least 1 meter between the couch and the rear wall for this to work. Placing them in the top corners pointing downward might work.

- At the listening distance of 4.2 m with L & R channels just 2.4 m apart, could a phantom centre suffice? Or would a centre channel be better for hearing clear dialogue at low listening levels?

A phantom center will most probably not suffice. I would expect a center channel to be 100% necessary to be able to hear dialogue at low listening levels.
I would also expect that moving the couch a bit from the wall to help in this regard.

- Is the X3700H overkill? Is MultEQ XT32 really worth it or is there another room correction option that allows a smaller AVR with less power, saving me money & TV unit real estate?

You could buy cheaper as I did hear very good results from Elac dbr62 with a Marantz SR6013.
It's mainly the left and right speaker plus eq and subs to fill the lows that count.

- Is the SVS 3000 Micro appropriate for the speakers/room? Is a €1,000 sub overkill for €305 speakers? Is there a cheaper/second-hand alternative which might be more suited? Max depth must be 39 cm.

Elac dbr 62 will give you better intelligibility of voices and naturalness of instruments. Ascilab better still and better placement of every sound: image.

A sub will just provide impact on movies and some final oomph to certain bass heavy music. If that is important to you I would rather start with a 300 to 500 euro sub and 1000 on speakers than the other way around.

Hope this helps.

 

[kemmler3D]

Thanks for your solid advice. I’m going to go for the amp pro or amp ultra. Seems like the Ultra has more power and upgraded WiFi and Bluetooth but I can’t see much more that’s changed. Any idea if there are other benefits?

If not, I’ll go for the amp pro which has the added benefit of not having a screen (I find it gimmicky and a distraction, especially for my child who I’m trying to introduce music to and disassociate it from screens)

The main differences between WiiM units is the type of connections it supports (optical, HDMI, etc) so just make sure it has what you need, other than power.

Aside from that, lots of good advice in this thread.

 

[BossBunos]

I have a pair of dbr62 collecting dust by the way. You can test them if you want, just send a PM and we'll sort something out. I've auditioned the Oberon's when they were launched and was not particularly impressed to be honest. It could have been the room idk. They sounded a bit muddy and boomy to me.

 

[jinza]

Regarding your questions:

Finishing Questions:
- Does the Oberon 1 / Vokal seem like a good fit? Or are there other models I should consider?

Imo it is worth it to invest a bit more, say 500 to 800 for a pair to get really good quality sound. Under 500 there are usually some quality corners cut. I would suggest to listen to the Elac dbr62 or order an Ascilab speaker.

If budget is tight I would suggest Sonos. Their speakers are fun to listen to and pretty solid and good looking.

- Are the Oberon on-walls comparative to the bookshelf versions? Is it worth giving them a listen?

The closer a speaker is to a wall, the more boomy and less clear the sound becomes ime. I would suggest to keep them at least 30 to preferably 50 cm from the wall.
Some speakers are designed to be placed closer to the wall, but it's still a compromise ime.

- Could the Oberon 5 have enough bass without a subwoofer? At 39 Hz, they're not far above the capacity of our current sub (33 Hz) so I wonder if at low-med listening levels with a centre channel to take some of the strain, we might not need a sub. Also looks nicer IMO & easier to set up. Potential case to bring to my wife. Might be able to hide a small sub in the opposite corner later on if we want to upgrade the bass.

I expect a tower speaker to introduce more problems than solving them unfortunately.
If you have a challenging room you are better of with bookshelf sized speakers and subs.

- Are surrounds even worth considering if they have to squeeze into the top corners almost in-line with our ears?

Not sure. If you move the couch from the wall, it might be good. I would expect you sit in the middle of the couch and have at least 1 meter between the couch and the rear wall for this to work. Placing them in the top corners pointing downward might work.

- At the listening distance of 4.2 m with L & R channels just 2.4 m apart, could a phantom centre suffice? Or would a centre channel be better for hearing clear dialogue at low listening levels?

A phantom center will most probably not suffice. I would expect a center channel to be 100% necessary to be able to hear dialogue at low listening levels.
I would also expect that moving the couch a bit from the wall to help in this regard.

- Is the X3700H overkill? Is MultEQ XT32 really worth it or is there another room correction option that allows a smaller AVR with less power, saving me money & TV unit real estate?

You could buy cheaper as I did hear very good results from Elac dbr62 with a Marantz SR6013.
It's mainly the left and right speaker plus eq and subs to fill the lows that count.

- Is the SVS 3000 Micro appropriate for the speakers/room? Is a €1,000 sub overkill for €305 speakers? Is there a cheaper/second-hand alternative which might be more suited? Max depth must be 39 cm.

Elac dbr 62 will give you better intelligibility of voices and naturalness of instruments. Ascilab better still and better placement of every sound: image.

A sub will just provide impact on movies and some final oomph to certain bass heavy music. If that is important to you I would rather start with a 300 to 500 euro sub and 1000 on speakers than the other way around.

Hope this helps.

Thanks so much for taking the time to give input on each of my questions - it means a lot!

Alas, I'm not able to move any furniture, including the couch. In future, I'll to see what can be done to further dampen & diffuse the reflective surfaces. I'll try stacking cushions along the top of the couch behind our heads to see if it helps, for now.

Considering the added cost & hassle of a surround sytem combined with its limited effectiveness in my space, I think I'm going to first try a 2 channel system with a dedicated stereo amp & see if phantom center will suffice. Maybe I can create an EQ preset which boosts the vocal range of frequencies.

I'm starting to warm toward bookshelves again, specifically the DBR62 after reading all of you suggesting it. I have the Oberon 5s due to arrive in the next couple of days with a Wiim Amp Pro and I'm curious to know more about what you said - the problems which floor standing speakers introduce. I'm a bit concerned that the DBR62s will not fill the room with as much of a full sound as the Oberon 5s (being floor standers), but at the same time I guess they'll be easier to correct with a sub, is that what you're thinking?

 

[Serruptic]

I think at this point all my prior knowledge from selling home systems before coming to this forum is defunct, but I would second that a center channel makes a huge difference.

If you go for the ELACs definitely take some time to hear them in your space, I have a pair of Uni-Fi UB51's in my living room and they have some drawbacks, although generally speaking they get the job done. I didn't have the opportunity to test or to return them if I didn't like them.

Also, I know clearly the interior design is not to be messed with, but I'd definitely agree setting up a small area behind the couch (perhaps a play area, looking at the toys around) or a space for bookshelves could offer a lot of benefits.

As far as damping, you could try setting up a blanket or sheet on the back wall too as a temporary measure for testing.

Make sure to test how the sound is from the dinner table and the kitchen as well! I also have a setup where we do a lot of extremely off-axis listening during daily use, and if that's where you and the family often are it should be included in the vetting!

 

[Marc v E]

Thanks so much for taking the time to give input on each of my questions - it means a lot!

(...)

I'm a bit concerned that the DBR62s will not fill the room with as much of a full sound as the Oberon 5s (being floor standers), but at the same time I guess they'll be easier to correct with a sub, is that what you're thinking?

You're welcome. It's fun to help.

In my experience the dbr62 are capable of filling a living room with punchy sound regarding music. This was in a living room measuring about 4 by 5 meters.

If you want the lower octaves then a sub will be necessary regardless if you have standmounts or floorstanders. Ime you would need to spend way more with floorstanders and possibly deal with uneven bass that cannot be corrected due to the fixed position of the speakers. In any case experiment, ymmv. Trying and experimenting (and measuring to make sense of it!) is key to success.


You are correct in thinking the bass will be easier to correct with subs. This is because every room has it's own shape and listening position, so the reflections are different and will result in some frequencies being too much and others too little. Placement and eq specifically designed to autocorrect bass remedies this to great effect. The thing is that in rooms with lots of reflections you probably need an avr with auto eq. And may need more than 1 sub to have a truely excellent result on all seats on the couch.

Having said that, a good left and right speaker with 1 sub and an avr with auto eq (and a microphone) will get you there 80% regarding full range sound and may be sufficient for your needs. A center speaker can then be added to resolve any remaining issues with low level speech in movies.

 

[Marc v E]

(...)

Alas, I'm not able to move any furniture, including the couch. In future, I'll to see what can be done to further dampen & diffuse the reflective surfaces. I'll try stacking cushions along the top of the couch behind our heads to see if it helps, for now.

Considering the added cost & hassle of a surround sytem combined with its limited effectiveness in my space, I think I'm going to first try a 2 channel system with a dedicated stereo amp & see if phantom center will suffice. Maybe I can create an EQ preset which boosts the vocal range of frequencies.

(...)

Reading this again, if I understand you correctly you want a room filling sound for the whole family to enjoy. The layout needs to stay as it is. And looks are important to your wife and you.

If correct then the best solution would be a Sonos system with a left, right and center speaker plus sonos sub. I would advice to listen for yourself, but I would expect you need the middle sized or biggest (300 or 500) to fill the room. A key benefit of the Sonos is the ease of setup, use and a room filling enjoyable sound, you may even enjoy sitting at the dining table.

 

[jinza]

In my experience the dbr62 are capable of filling a living room with punchy sound regarding music. This was in a living room measuring about 4 by 5 meters.
Great to know. This is pretty similar to the dimensions of my living room.

Ime you would need to spend way more with floorstanders and possibly deal with uneven bass that cannot be corrected due to the fixed position of the speakers.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? Do you mean multiple bass drivers being fixed to the same cabinet? Or that they are less able to be repositioned around the room? A store nearby is selling a pair of KEF R5 (new, non-meta) for €1600 which is within my budget and a step up from the Oberon 5s, in fact, they're almost on-par with the R3 which has rave reviews. So brings the age-old debate; towers vs bookshelves...

Having said that, a good left and right speaker with 1 sub and an avr with auto eq (and a microphone) will get you there 80% regarding full range sound and may be sufficient for your needs. A center speaker can then be added to resolve any remaining issues with low level speech in movies.
This has been my hardest decision to make so far. I can pick up a Denon AVR-X3700H (which has Audyssey MultEQ XT32) in good shape for €600 but it's gigantic and I'm still unsure if I will connect a center channel. So my decision is between this an a Wiim Amp Pro or Amp Ultra (released in a month or two). I gather that the Wiim Amp Pro's 10-band EQ will likely be enough to correct my room for my needs, but I'd be open to any more opinions on this. Also I gather that the sound quality between the Denon and Wiim Amp would be negligible, but if you have any thoughts on this, I'd also love to hear it.

If correct then the best solution would be a Sonos system with a left, right and center speaker plus sonos sub.
You are correct and the newest models of Sonos (300 and 5) seem like a fantastic solution, but there's just one problem...they don't connect to a TV. It's the 2 second latency which causes it to be out of sync with the picture.

 

[Marc v E]

Do you mean multiple bass drivers being fixed to the same cabinet? Or that they are less able to be repositioned around the room?

Yes both are detrimental to good sound at your seating position. That's because from such a distance with walls close by , you have multiple reflections that make the direct sound likely less clear and boomy. Floorstanders need space.

Say you would want bass but not move the furniture, then bookshelve sized speakers and multiple subs would give you much better sound.

 

[ZolaIII]

@jinza to put it in perspective at 4 m you need speakers that will do 95~97 dB without trace of compression and THD under control for main bass at least (as you lose 10~12 dB at the distance). As you don't have much space to sacrifice good bookshelf's with hollow stands will go better than full floor stand one's. Linton's for 1K with stands and relatively wide dispersion fit in. You do need more capable DSP thanks to room you will be using it in and Denon/Audyssey fits in and perform quite good. WiiM won't do the job sufficiently enough. If you can't provide at least deacent positioning and basic treatment save your money and forget about it.

 

[Marc v E]

I think it's still possible because they listen at medium to low level iirc. @jinza I would recommend you take up that offer to try the dbr62 and experience. Same with Sonos at home. Then you'll know what route to take.