Schiit Modius Balanced DAC Review

[milosz]

I'd like to know if anyone can hear differences between DACs. If it's an accepted fact that folks can't hear these differences, I'd like to see the data that established this as a fact. If it's science, there ought to be data....

I believe it's unlikely that anyone can hear the difference between a SINAD of 118 dB and 109 dB. But I'd like to convert belief into knowledge by having some good data.

In addition, I'd like to see some data to show if folks can hear the difference between an Audio-GD DAC and a Topping DAC. I'm not so interested in whether they like some difference that they can hear - I want to see if it can be demonstrated that people actually CAN hear a difference. If it's Audio SCIENCE Review - well the science part implies that we need data to understand the matter.

 

[Lupin]

I really want to see some well designed double-blind studies to see if anyone can hear any differences between these good DACs. I would also LOVE to see if people can hear how bad one of the poorly-testing DACs sounds in comparison. Like, for example, an Audio-GD DAC. I think that the results will surprise some of us. My belief is that these measured differences are far less audible than many think they are.

I have a Topping D30Pro which is in the top 20 of all DACs tested and an Audio-GD NFB-11.38. This particular Audio-GD model has never been measured by Amir but going by the measurements of the other Audio-GD DACs I will be very surprised if the NFB-11.38 has more than half the SINAD score of the D30Pro. (yes i know that SINAD is not the only thing that matters but that is beside the point right now)

One can come to the conclusion (usually just assume it) that the difference between these two DACs must night and day, very obvious, when comparing measurements of the D30Pro and an Audio-GD. I listen to both DACs on almost a daily basis and I'm certain that I would not be able to reliably pick them apart in a controlled double blind test.

Amir also mentioned in one of his reviews that even though the Audio-GD measures terribly the actual audible differences compared with a top measuring DAC are very subtle. Amir is a trained listener who knows what to listen for and even when he concentrates on it to find differences they are still very subtle. He also mentioned that with just some "regular" background listening without solely focusing/concentrating on the sound and every micro detail one will not hear a difference at all.

I think it is a pretty safe bet to say the majority of people who talk trash about Audio-GD will not be able to hear a difference between said Audio-GD and another top ranking DAC in a controlled double blind test as even a trained listener like Amir need to concentrate to be able to pick out subtle differences.

So yes I have that believe as well.
People look at the measurements of a DAC in the red segment and automatically assume it will sound like a tin can which is simply not true. The difference is not night and day even between the absolute top and absolute bottom of all the DACs tested.

 

[Veri]

I listen to both DACs on almost a daily basis and I'm certain that I would not be able to reliably pick them apart in a controlled double blind test.

Amir also mentioned in one of his reviews that even though the Audio-GD measures terribly the actual audible differences compared with a top measuring DAC are very subtle. Amir is a trained listener who knows what to listen for and even when he concentrates on it to find differences they are still very subtle. He also mentioned that with just some "regular" background listening without solely focusing/concentrating on the sound and every micro detail one will not hear a difference at all.

I think it is a pretty safe bet to say the majority of people who talk trash about Audio-GD will not be able to hear a difference between said Audio-GD and another top ranking DAC in a controlled double blind test as even a trained listener like Amir need to concentrate to be able to pick out subtle differences.

So yes I have that believe as well.
People look at the measurements of a DAC in the red segment and automatically assume it will sound like a tin can which is simply not true. The difference is not night and day even between the absolute top and absolute bottom of all the DACs tested.

Good observation. And yes in casual use the differences will be tiny. Which makes people's subjective comparisons that much more funny at times. OTOH, bad devices might be quite passable in use. But still, why recommend them? I would not recommend a big ass high-weighing with iffy looking power supply and capacitors audio-gd amp or dac. If you do have one, it's probably fine.

 

[Lupin]

Good observation. And yes in casual use the differences will be tiny. Which makes people's subjective comparisons that much more funny at times. OTOH, bad devices might be quite passable in use. But still, why recommend them? I would not recommend a big ass high-weighing with iffy looking power supply and capacitors audio-gd amp or dac. If you do have one, it's probably fine.

There is something between recommending and claiming/assuming that it sound like a tin can and hurt your ears.

 

[BDWoody]

If it's an accepted fact that folks can't hear these differences, I'd like to see the data that established this as a fact. If it's science, there ought to be data.

Is there scientific proof that a human can't jump 20' high?

 

[Labjr]

That's why It no longer makes any sense to pay more than $99 for a DAC like Audio-GD, no matter what's inside it. Just chose something that has been measured and shown to be competently designed.

 

[UltraPro]

Well, many audio reviewers at least claim to hear the differences, which I'm not that sure about, but I'm not a 'nay-sayer' like this forum basically is. Not that there is anything wrong about that attitude if it makes one feel more comfortable, or the other way around, but I just find it hard to believe so many people would lie about this stuff, hype people excluded. The thing is many people who claim to hear the differences have some serious equipment with them, which is often an important factor, that what kind of chain you have. I'm not claiming anything, but if we go by the argument that all DACs are similar, then you should only pay for features and nothing else, so by that logic Schiit Modius is not that good product compared to similarly priced balanced DACs and should not be recommended. I have nothing against Schiit or their products, but this is common logical sense if you ask me, so pick your poison.

 

[Walter]

Well, many audio reviewers at least claim to hear the differences, which I'm not that sure about, but I'm not a 'nay-sayer' like this forum basically is. Not that there is anything wrong about that attitude if it makes one feel more comfortable, or the other way around, but I just find it hard to believe so many people would lie about this stuff, hype people excluded. The thing is many people who claim to hear the differences have some serious equipment with them, which is often an important factor, that what kind of chain you have. I'm not claiming anything, but if we go by the argument that all DACs are similar, then you should only pay for features and nothing else, so by that logic Schiit Modius is not that good product compared to similarly priced balanced DACs and should not be recommended. I have nothing against Schiit or their products, but this is common logical sense if you ask me, so pick your poison.

Actually, it is as cheap as it gets if you want both balanced and unbalanced outputs, as many people do. Not all reviewers are lying. Many are just incompetent.

 

[Diable]

I have a Topping D30Pro which is in the top 20 of all DACs tested and an Audio-GD NFB-11.38. This particular Audio-GD model has never been measured by Amir but going by the measurements of the other Audio-GD DACs I will be very surprised if the NFB-11.38 has more than half the SINAD score of the D30Pro. (yes i know that SINAD is not the only thing that matters but that is beside the point right now)

One can come to the conclusion (usually just assume it) that the difference between these two DACs must night and day, very obvious, when comparing measurements of the D30Pro and an Audio-GD. I listen to both DACs on almost a daily basis and I'm certain that I would not be able to reliably pick them apart in a controlled double blind test.

Amir also mentioned in one of his reviews that even though the Audio-GD measures terribly the actual audible differences compared with a top measuring DAC are very subtle. Amir is a trained listener who knows what to listen for and even when he concentrates on it to find differences they are still very subtle. He also mentioned that with just some "regular" background listening without solely focusing/concentrating on the sound and every micro detail one will not hear a difference at all.

I think it is a pretty safe bet to say the majority of people who talk trash about Audio-GD will not be able to hear a difference between said Audio-GD and another top ranking DAC in a controlled double blind test as even a trained listener like Amir need to concentrate to be able to pick out subtle differences.

So yes I have that believe as well.
People look at the measurements of a DAC in the red segment and automatically assume it will sound like a tin can which is simply not true. The difference is not night and day even between the absolute top and absolute bottom of all the DACs tested.

A DAC in the red segment might not sound like a tin can but I don't see a reason for someone to buy one over a DAC in the green segment. Your post reads like someone trying to justify their purchase of a DAC that scored in the red.

 

[HiFidFan]

Is there scientific proof that a human can't jump 20' high?

https://www.coreadvantage.com.au/blog/why-cant-i-jump-high-the-science-behind-vertical-leap

 

[Lupin]

A DAC in the red segment might not sound like a tin can but I don't see a reason for someone to buy one over a DAC in the green segment. Your post reads like someone trying to justify their purchase of a DAC that scored in the red.

If you read some of my other posts you would have known that I hardly paid anything for the Audio-GD. So I don't really feel all that compelled to justify my purchase of said Audio-GD.

If you read some of my other posts you would have known that I never recommended the Audio-GD or any other Audio-GD product to anyone. I even admitted/stated that with the recent AIO releases from Topping are much more appealing and better deal than Audio-GD.

If you read some of my other posts you would have known that I acknowledge and accept that Audio-GD measures terribly. I'm not a Audio-GD fanboy and I never defended those poor measurements with audiophile claims like "you can't measure everything".

What I do take issues with is people jumping on the trash talk Audio-GD bandwagon because that is the popular opinion to have here and will get you free likes. The majority of those same people most likely can't pick an Audio-GD from a Topping in a controlled blind test. Yet they are the first to reply with how bad Audio-GD soundsso bad it will hurt their ears and even their cat will commit suicide when it hears music from an Audio-GD.

I never have or will recommend Audio-GD but I will respond when people claim how bad it sounds purely based on measurements they apparently don't (fully) understand or know how to interpret the numbers they see.

 

[Walter]

I had a roommate a few years ago who had a Audio-GD DAC. No idea what model but it was probably bought 2011-2012. I think the price was $1500-$2500. I compared it to the $500 CityPulse DAC it had replaced and it sounded slightly better (sighted, level matched by ear, so...). I did not think it was bad by any means, but definitely not worth the price differential. However, either one was a dramatic upgrade in comparison to direct output from my 2012 HP EliteBook 840--on par with going from a pair of $5 computer speakers to anything competent. I believe he replaced the A-G with a Topping D10 and considered it equal or better! He's now using an RME.

He also had The Truth amplifier. I thought it was broken, the channel imbalance was so extreme. But then Amir found the same when he tested it.

 

[Paul_d]

Got my Modius today... Have a question:
How I can use ASIO on this in Foobar2000 ?
I found some manual from Schiit, but I have no "ASIO Driver for C-Media with Microsoft Effects" to select in foo_dsd_asio.dll settings.

And one more thing: for better sound quality, should I plug-in Modius to external power ?

 

[Veri]

Got my Modius today... Have a question:
How I can use ASIO on this in Foobar2000 ?
I found some manual from Schiit, but I have no "ASIO Driver for C-Media with Microsoft Effects" to select in foo_dsd_asio.dll settings.

You will need something like https://sourceforge.net/projects/asio2wasapi/ since I'm not sure Schiit provides an ASIO driver for their 'Unison' USB stage... pretty sure they do not.

 

[Paul_d]

You will need something like https://sourceforge.net/projects/asio2wasapi/ since I'm not sure Schiit provides an ASIO driver for their 'Unison' USB stage... pretty sure they do not.

Now I trying JRiver via Wasapi - is this a good replacement asio ?

 

[Veri]

Now I trying JRiver via Wasapi - is this a good replacement asio ?

Yes

 

[Paul_d]

Yes

thanks.

But how about external power supply, better to use it ? especially if I want attach RCA cables to second amplifier ?

 

[Lupin]

You will need something like https://sourceforge.net/projects/asio2wasapi/ since I'm not sure Schiit provides an ASIO driver for their 'Unison' USB stage... pretty sure they do not.

Correct.
Unison USB supports up to PCM 24/192 through Windows supplied UAC2 drivers, nothing more nothing higher.
So no PCM 384 and higher, no DSD, no MQA and no ASIO support.

 

[Veri]

But how about external power supply, better to use it ? especially if I want attach RCA cables to second amplifier ?

In that case yes I'd recommend plugging it into a PSU. Doesn't need to be anything exotic. A phone charger or iPad charger rated at 5V will do fine.

 

[Paul_d]

I've noticed, that diode on Modius didn't turn off even when PC is off (only usb connection for now). Is it normal if device will be turned on forever, or need to plug out from PC ?