Sounds like you are running just two speakers and not at extremly loud volumes so you ruled out overdriving the 4700. Does the "harshness" you describe exist with all input sources? Have you compared music sources that reproduce the harshness you describe with the reproduction of some test tracks on a HQ stereo or surround sound test CD? Is the "harshness" the same with Audyssey "on" and "off"? Have you ruled-out "settings" issues? I'd recommend reviewing your Audyssey calibration technique and hygiene....ie, room silent, microphone absolutely perpendicular to the ceiling, take all measurements withing 20 inches of the 1st measurement position and all at the same "ear level". Audyssey eq results will only be as good as the exactness of the process.
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Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)
- Thread starter amirm
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Sounds like you are running just two speakers and not at extremly loud volumes so you ruled out overdriving the 4700. Does the "harshness" you describe exist with all input sources? Have you compared music sources that reproduce the harshness you describe with the reproduction of some test tracks on a HQ stereo or surround sound test CD? Is the "harshness" the same with Audyssey "on" and "off"? Have you ruled-out "settings" issues? I'd recommend reviewing your Audyssey calibration technique and hygiene....ie, room silent, microphone absolutely perpendicular to the ceiling, take all measurements withing 20 inches of the 1st measurement position and all at the same "ear level". Audyssey eq results will only be as good as the exactness of the process.
I know " harshness" is in itself open to interpretation. This is essentially the first time I understand what people mean when people describe sound as being fatiguing.
I've reviewed some material on running Audyssey and tweaking it using the app so will sit down and try it again.
To be clear I don't have any complaints when watching movies in surround. I watched both Fury Road and Tron: Legacy the other night, both were cranked and sounded amazing.
I just turned Auddyssey off completely while writing this and I actually think it's a lot better.
That tells me you should go into the Audyssey app on your phone or iPad and change the setting so only frequencies below 500Hz are effected by Audyssey. Next, save it and upload it to the 4700 and you will be happy.
That tells me you should go into the Audyssey app on your phone or iPad and change the setting so only frequencies below 500Hz are effected by Audyssey. Next, save it and upload it to the 4700 and you will be happy.
That fixed it 100%. I'm now listening to music at reference level and it sounds awesome. Thanks to everyone for the help.
Bello
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That would be an extremely minor affect from (low air flow movement) across the top vs forced air (fast movement) through the system. Forced air would accelerate dust contamination (100 fold) to sensitive internal audio components. If I was wrong - wouldn't you think that all audio manufacturers w/ high amperage / Watt output, implement, design cheep insulated fans to the bottom and tops of these systems? To have them run cooler. You'll never see that happen BC it would be detrimental to the internal audio components, and SINAD period. We're talking audio not data as in a PC or server type of equipment. Difference, where audio sound reproduction is the ultimate goal. Fans also generate noise Freq. over modulate into an audio circuit path signal so another reason not to use them. Low speed fans, away from the chassis is best. From systems backend cool air IN front hot air OUT........... It's Simple (Bello principle) :+))
Interesting concept that in theory should/could assist normal heat convection through a component. Only temperature measurements of the warmest/hotest internal components would indicate how well it works.
Just curious, how/where does your assertion of "(100 fold)" accelerated dust contaminiation come from? Wouldn't that be a function of the amount of dust of certain size and mass, and the volume of air through the unit? Humidity would be another significant dust "accumulation factor". I've seen the insides of many computers and audio components. Dust moving though forced air accumulates the greatest amounts on the "leading edge" of surfaces it touches rather than being evenly distributed or "blanketed" and attached to all sides of every part inside the component.
FWIW, in over 44 years I've had components fail from "old age" and heat failure from poor design but never from dust failure and some of them have had fans sucking air out the top or through them for a decade or more. Poor design has always been the greatest failure factor from my experience.
Honestly, I hope your approach serves you well.
Thank you all for the great info on this thread! Interesting and informative.
Two Questions:
1. Where are those who use these fans plugging them in so they turn on/off with the AVR?
2. If I picked up a three channel Emotiva BasX amp to drive my Wharfedale Evo 4.4 FLR and 4C Center, could I use the 4700 amp L/R for a zone two set of speakers? If so, would there be significant signal degradation? I don't tend to drive my speakers to hard (mostly under 70 on the volume dial).
1. I'm using this power strip for the Denon 4700 and the fan. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9203
When I turn off the Denon I also switch off the power strip.
2. You can't use the front pre-outs and the front internal amps at the same time. You would connect the Zone 2 speakers to Height2 channels on the Denon 4700. See page 67 in the Denon 4700 manual for details.
Ok thanks. So there isn't really a way to have the fans switch on our off with the AVR. I have it all in a separate room so it'd be a bit of a pain to walk to that room and manually turn fans on and off.
Regarding zone two...I use all 9 channels in a 5.2.4 configuration. If I added an external amp to drive the front three and used rear height 2 for zone two could I then reassign the other inputs to maintain the 5.2.4 configuration? Or would I be essentially not be able to do this?
Maybe I'm best off just getting a separate 2 channel AVR for the other zone... Was just thinking of I'm spending money, maybe it's better to spend it on separate to drive the LRC and use the internal amp for zone two (which isn't used that much).
Never, say never. While the Denon doesn't have power outlets you could plug into the USB port on the front of the Denon - but the front cover would need to be open. The other option would be a STITCH power strip https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=40874 This would allow Alexa and Google Home turn the fans off or on.
Suppose i
Suppose I could run it from my tv USB. I know that power turns on/off with the tv since it controls my bias lighting. Or maybe my Amazon fire cube does too....I'll play with it.
Addressing your first question about fans: With fans like AC Infinity that have a thermostat feature you don't need to use a trigger or "linked" on/off switch. I have three of them sitting on top of two AVRs and an amp. They are always plugged in and turned on with their thermostats set at 88 degrees, and when the AVRs or amp heat up to 88 the fans come on and when the equipment is turned off and the fans cool the units to below 88 the fans automatically turn off...no switches, no triggers and I don't have to do anything.
Bello
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Has anyone tested SINAD on Deon systems or any high end sound systems w/ fans sitting on the top/bottom of the chassis? I think some of us would understand spinning fans generate noise that can over modulate onto an audio signal circuit. Just wondering if anyone has tested this setup with sensitive sound gear.
As discussed before, some of the detriments of spinning fans sitting on audio equipment.
TIA...
As discussed before, some of the detriments of spinning fans sitting on audio equipment.
TIA...
So you're saying I should read the product description!? Lol.
Thanks for the info. That's perfect.
Hi @peng
I use my Macbook as HDMI source with 4700
I find the volume too low and I run out of volume.
I can fix this using the source input level feature of the 4700 , boosting by 6dB
I use the AVR in Pure Direct mode.
How would I know if this +6dB source boost would be causing any kind of amplifier clipping?
Other than anything audible , no other way to know?
This source boost does allow be to reduce overall volume. But at what tradeoff/s ?
Appreciate any advice
I use my Macbook as HDMI source with 4700
I find the volume too low and I run out of volume.
I can fix this using the source input level feature of the 4700 , boosting by 6dB
I use the AVR in Pure Direct mode.
How would I know if this +6dB source boost would be causing any kind of amplifier clipping?
Other than anything audible , no other way to know?
This source boost does allow be to reduce overall volume. But at what tradeoff/s ?
Appreciate any advice
I'm not Peng, but I have have used the HDMI out from my 2019 MacBook Pro to the Denon 4700 and don't experience any volume issues at all. I use Audirvana 3.5 as the player. I also use Audirvana to connect via UPnP to the Denon 4700 via wifi and that offers more volume than I will ever need. My best guess is the software you are using on the MBP to play music does not have the volume setting optimized for the Denon 4700. In my opinion, trying to compensate for the low MBP audio level by boosting Denon volume would be the wrong way to correct the issue.
I think amper42 is right. I also use a MacBook Pro and don't have such issue, and I would imagine MacBook would be the same. I do have a question, did you set the MacBook's volume to maximum? If not try that and see what happens.
With Audirvana 3.5 the audio volume going to the Denon 4700 is independent of the MBP system volume as the software wants to offer a steady line out signal. You can increase the volume within Audirvana but not by using the MBP volume control panel. I would look for the volume control within the player software you are using. Increasing that will make a difference.
For extra background, I use my quietest CD that I own for this test.
I am Comparing my 4308 and 4700. Software is at 100% volume as is Mac.
4700 at 0dB on the Denon (for this quitest cd) is equivalent to -15dB on the 4700. All other settings identical.
Pure Direct on both.
I can use source input level on the 4700 to correct this.
But how can I know if this boost pushes into clipping territory, other than trying to listen?
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I also had a 4308 before I switched to AVPs, two Marantz AVPs later I switched back to AVR, the 4400 that should be very similar to the 4700 in the preamp/DAC signal path. The thing is, I don't recall noticing much difference that I perceived in output levels between any of them, let alone 15 dB!! For such a huge difference, I would have to guess something is wrong. May be the quickest way is to find out is to do a factory reset and see what happens. Hopefully it is just setting related.
If you look at Amir's test, he typically gets 2 V output using a digital input test signal at 0 dBFS, with volume set to 82.5, that is +2.5. That should give you some idea. I would also suggest you use an online calculator to estimate you power need, as well as measure the maximum SPL you are getting from your mlp, playing your test CD. By the way, what are you using to play that "quietest CD", and can you described how you connect everything together, from the source player through to the 4700?
Peak SPL Calculator (hometheaterengineering.com)
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