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Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

Newman

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It is such an odd decision. Why not accept USB audio on the back panel?
 

Steve Dallas

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It is such an odd decision. Why not accept USB audio on the back panel?

USB would be much more usable to me than the legacy video connectors they still include. Fortunately, I have a Schitt Modius and run an external amp for the front pair, so I have a USB option for when I want it.
 

da Choge

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It is such an odd decision. Why not accept USB audio on the back panel?
Or, even better yet, an Ethernet connection that accepts streaming audio from Roon and the likes thereof. Other integrated amps are almost there or are already doing it; it will just be a matter of time until you see both Ethernet and USB connections that can do the same on some of these big corporate AVR retailers from Sound United, Yamaha, etc., IMHO (or, at least, I HOPE so). However, your best bet for total functionality and best quality may still be an external DAC or high-end DAC/Streamer for quite some time to come. And, then, of course, you will want to get high spec separates in terms of preamp & amps -- YIKES!
 

amper42

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If you have a Denon 3700, 4700 or 6700 and use "Pre-amp only" mode in amp assign, then ECO Mode can't be set. The ECO mode setting on the screen is displayed in grey as it's not doing anything. If you have high quality external amps this configuration can provide extremely low noise and distortion.

If the Denon 3700, 4700 or 6700 is setup using internal amps with ECO mode ON, amp power is cut by almost half to reduce heat and electricity usage. As you would expect, this can cause distortion to kick in sooner than with ECO OFF or ECO AUTO mode.

View attachment 146890

@peng just sent me a response from Marantz level II support. It says:
"Thank you for contacting Marantz Support, we value you as a customer and appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance! My name is Jim. I understand that you have a question about ECO mode settings for your SR8015 in pre-amp mode.

"You have it right. Cannot be set does not mean that it cannot be on or off. It means that you cannot choose to turn it on or off. Any time you see this message, it means that the setting will be whatever the receiver needs it to be in order for the feature that is causing that message to come up to function properly. It will either be always on or always off and you will not be able to interact with that setting while using that mode."
-------------------

With that official word from Marantz, it appears in Amp Assign "Pre-amp Mode" ECO is on and cannot be changed. This hopefully corrects my original post as I can't edit it at this point. Thanks PENG.
 

Newman

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Because your confirmation bias won’t allow you to hear its inaudible transparency as equally good? Or is it because you need more power?
 

amper42

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Because your confirmation bias won’t allow you to hear its inaudible transparency as equally good? Or is it because you need more power?

I have the Denon 4700 setup in full preamp mode and the RME ADI-2 FS sits side by side with Revel F328Be speakers. The RME provides a slightly cleaner stereo sound. You can hear the difference when you A/B between the two. For stereo, I prefer the RME and I move back to the 4700 when enjoying Home Theatre.
 

rccarguy

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Because your confirmation bias won’t allow you to hear its inaudible transparency as equally good? Or is it because you need more power?

Not confirmation bias, if you feel a avr sounds exactly the same as a stereo integrated amp, then fair play to you with your bad ears.

Avr are passable and if you're not too fussed about sound quality they're good enough.

But pale in comparison with hifi gear.

My audiolab system outclasses my avr by massive margin.
 

Steve Dallas

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Not confirmation bias, if you feel a avr sounds exactly the same as a stereo integrated amp, then fair play to you with your bad ears.

Avr are passable and if you're not too fussed about sound quality they're good enough.

But pale in comparison with hifi gear.

My audiolab system outclasses my avr by massive margin.

Does your audiolab system have bass management? Room correction?

When I listen to my 4700's DAC with Audyssey in preamp mode vs. my Modius DAC with Dirac, the only differences I hear are the differences between Audyssey and Dirac and the extra 2 octaves provided by my subs (thanks to the 4700's bass management). Granted, the speakers are driven by a 300wpc integrated amp in both scenarios. The AVR is so good, I now use it for stereo listening most of the time.
 

rccarguy

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Does your audiolab system have bass management? Room correction?

When I listen to my 4700's DAC with Audyssey in preamp mode vs. my Modius DAC with Dirac, the only differences I hear are the differences between Audyssey and Dirac and the extra 2 octaves provided by my subs (thanks to the 4700's bass management). Granted, the speakers are driven by a 300wpc integrated amp in both scenarios. The AVR is so good, I now use it for stereo listening most of the time.

Nope, no bass management, no room correction, no tone controls.

Input selector, gain, record and volume
 

Newman

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There’s only one person in this exchange who keeps giving more and more evidence of what you deliberately and insultingly call “bad ears”…and it sure isn’t me, mate.
 

Newman

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I have the Denon 4700 setup in full preamp mode and the RME ADI-2 FS sits side by side with Revel F328Be speakers. The RME provides a slightly cleaner stereo sound. You can hear the difference when you A/B between the two. For stereo, I prefer the RME and I move back to the 4700 when enjoying Home Theatre.
The world is full of audiophiles doing what you just described as a test….and believing it.

IMO one function of this site is to disabuse you of the notion that the test you described is a valid assessment of sound waves.
 
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oupee

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The world is full of audiophiles doing what you just described as a test….and believing it.

IMO one function of this site is to disabuse you of the notion that the test you described is a valid assessment of sound waves.
This is the tragedy of today's world. A lot of people don't even listen to quality music anymore and just sit on the internet, they play experts without their own experience, and if they don't hear the difference, they don't admit that they can't hear it, but they close it all off with the difference that there is no difference. You have never heard the combination of Denon 4700, RME ADI-2 FS and Revel F328Be but you need to comment on its sound.
 

Benedium

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This is the tragedy of today's world. A lot of people don't even listen to quality music anymore and just sit on the internet, they play experts without their own experience, and if they don't hear the difference, they don't admit that they can't hear it, but they close it all off with the difference that there is no difference. You have never heard the combination of Denon 4700, RME ADI-2 FS and Revel F328Be but you need to comment on its sound.
You may need to realise they can say the same about other equipment and you. There are some who have the same experience as you but with the addition of science knowledge. Surely that is not too hard to imagine? Good thing it is not a competition.
 
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Benedium

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For myself, I have neither audiophile experience nor the science knowledge. So I choose to teach and condition my hearing with the recommendations and explanations of those with both audiophile experience and science knowledge.
 

oupee

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Although I can't imagine living and following the experiences of others when I can form an opinion. There is nothing easier than following measurements and tables created by someone. I've already written it here somewhere, it's your money, spend it on whatever you want. Peace.
 

GXAlan

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There can be differences between amplifiers, but the question is really if it's a *big* difference or not.

Linn famously did a comparison between their Selekt DSM and Naim Uniti Atom which was unblinded and had a lot of pre-suggestion by the sales team. That said, if you look at audio.com.pl and look at the frequency response, it's different enough that you can imagine a difference would in fact be audible since it's a 2dB difference at 20k and you might imagine a complex speaker load being even larger of a difference than a test resistor.

There is also the issue of baseline SNR and whether you can hear hiss from the tweeter with your ear next to the speaker or not (which wouldn't be audible at the sitting position) but would be an example of where you can identify differences between two amplifiers in a blinded fashion. This is particularly true with high-efficiency speakers.

LINN SELEKT DSM
1630009436832.png



NAIM UNITI ATOM
1630009422416.png
 

Newman

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This is the tragedy of today's world. A lot of people don't even listen to quality music anymore and just sit on the internet, they play experts without their own experience, and if they don't hear the difference, they don't admit that they can't hear it, but they close it all off with the difference that there is no difference. You have never heard the combination of Denon 4700, RME ADI-2 FS and Revel F328Be but you need to comment on its sound.

No, you got completely the wrong end of the stick. This is about doing valid listening tests, not about whether I've "heard some gear". If anyone on this forum, with science in its name, wants to claim clear audible differences between electronic gear with flat FR and distortions around -100 dB, they had better be doing strict controlled DBT with statistical validity -- because the differences in actual sound waves are going to be so hard to pick that separating out the guesswork from reality would be a major exercise. But we know they haven't done that, right? Otherwise they would be able to point us to the published, peer reviewed report of their ground-breaking work, that smashes the previously understood boundaries of human hearing and perception thresholds. And if they want to go much further, as in a few posts above, and say "outclassed by a massive margin...and anyone who doesn't hear same has bad ears", then I can guarantee you, it's all about using invalid listening tests that are not, actually, about the sound waves any more, but about distortions in human perception based on non-sonic factors that are overwhelming the actual audible differences in sound waves.

I don't need to have personal experience of combination X: I just need to know that the humans involved are in fact human and not superheroes.
 

Roland

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I agree with your theory and I would be entirely convinced if only you could provide a link to a DBT which proved that (say) a Behringer A800 or Denon 3700 sounds exactly the same as Rotel Michi X5 or Luxman L509X, for example. Now that would blow audiophile hifi out of the water!
 

Benedium

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Pretty sure this is what this whole web forum is about. We are just waiting for those who can, to test and prove what we ourselves cannot. I think the problem is that many of us still don't understand the test results and proofs.
 
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