Thanks, I'll have to look and that (maybe I can get more details from some Maxim friends -- probably not!)
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This audio cable business is getting out of hand...
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Thanks, I'll have to look and that (maybe I can get more details from some Maxim friends -- probably not!)
gfx_1
Active Member
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Figured out the 175 hours (it took a while) but it is 7 days and 7 hours so it must be magic...
175 hours is approximate. At 7 days, 7 hours, 7 minutes, 7 seconds, 7 milliseconds... you get one instant of perfect sound. After that, the cables begin to age and degrade, and you must replace them with new and burn them in again.
Jeez like, it looks like a snake that's eaten something really big.
This thing looks dangerous, like it could catch fire. There's also the classic "well after hundreds of miles of cheap utility wire, at least the last 3 feet are good"
Archimago's speaker cable measurements
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/02/measurements-archimagos-colorful.html#more
"Needless to say, I believe all audiophile speaker cable reviews should include measurements of these basic LCR value (here's looking at you The Absolute Sound and Hi-Fi+). Especially for $$$$ cables, wouldn't it be good for readers to anticipate losses based on resistance and the length they need, consider if the cable acts as a low-pass "tone control", and consider if capacitance might be too high for their amplifier? In fact, this might also be good for manufacturers so they can explicitly put warnings against certain cables that might not be compatible with their design - save on repair hassles for everyone! "
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/02/measurements-archimagos-colorful.html#more
"Needless to say, I believe all audiophile speaker cable reviews should include measurements of these basic LCR value (here's looking at you The Absolute Sound and Hi-Fi+). Especially for $$$$ cables, wouldn't it be good for readers to anticipate losses based on resistance and the length they need, consider if the cable acts as a low-pass "tone control", and consider if capacitance might be too high for their amplifier? In fact, this might also be good for manufacturers so they can explicitly put warnings against certain cables that might not be compatible with their design - save on repair hassles for everyone! "
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The fact JA of Stereophile has never bothered with cable measurements has always seemed to me a tacit admission that he just doesn't think it worth his time; that he likely wouldn't find anything to support or correlate with the purple prose any reviewer will write about cables. It would just be one "shrug" after another at the end of his measurements comment section.
RE: VintageFlanker, post: 375362 Proposal to End Snake Oil
Interesting..... Audiophiliac promises to stop criticism of cable manufacturers who stop making misleading performance claims.
What premium consumer cable brands comply with this? Blue Jean Cable comes close. He mentions Kimber Kable...but while they may be more honest than most, they certainly do make claims about audible performance that are not proven or provable. Are their other premium brands that make no unjustified performance claims?
I do not agree with his suggestion that cable manufacturers should all post measurements. If as he says, virtually all well designed cables sound exactly the same, then including measurements only serves to focus buyers on specifications that build credibility but have no actual impact on sound.
Spending a lot more for a cable because it measures very slightly better than a cheap alternative makes no more sense than spending a lot because of a technology story that might be true but does not impact real world sound quality.
Interesting..... Audiophiliac promises to stop criticism of cable manufacturers who stop making misleading performance claims.
What premium consumer cable brands comply with this? Blue Jean Cable comes close. He mentions Kimber Kable...but while they may be more honest than most, they certainly do make claims about audible performance that are not proven or provable. Are their other premium brands that make no unjustified performance claims?
I do not agree with his suggestion that cable manufacturers should all post measurements. If as he says, virtually all well designed cables sound exactly the same, then including measurements only serves to focus buyers on specifications that build credibility but have no actual impact on sound.
Spending a lot more for a cable because it measures very slightly better than a cheap alternative makes no more sense than spending a lot because of a technology story that might be true but does not impact real world sound quality.
I would be surprised to hear this from Audiophiliac.
Not sure I agree with his approach in the post, but hat's off to Gene and the Audioholic's crew for being one of the few, highly visible opponents to all the BS thrown around in audio. We need to speak out on this crap as much as possible. The subjectivist side is getting nervous, if you read the last few issues of Stereophile there's a lot of push back coming out of them. .
I just got the May issue a few day back and Jim Austin is at it again in the page 1 "As We See It" editorial defending the "trust your ears" world. He worries that "perfectionist audio is in danger of being waylaid again by a preoccupation with numbers and measurements".
Yep Jim, people are starting to wake up to your snake oil world.
I just got the May issue a few day back and Jim Austin is at it again in the page 1 "As We See It" editorial defending the "trust your ears" world. He worries that "perfectionist audio is in danger of being waylaid again by a preoccupation with numbers and measurements".
Yep Jim, people are starting to wake up to your snake oil world.
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"perfectionist audio is in danger of being waylaid again by a preoccupation with numbers and measurements".
Cables, Schmabels - I wanna know who stole all our freakin' anti-matter?
Mr @GGroch, Gene is not the Audiophiliac, that is the far out Steve Guttenberg.
Speedskater
Major Contributor
While Kurt Denke at Blue Jeans Cables is becoming an expert on audio cables, BJC just went over to the Dark Side when they started carrying 'Iconoclast Cables'.
Galen Gareis designer of 'Iconoclast Cables' has great marketing skills in taking engineering knowledge out of context and then misapplying it.
I find this a sad change at BJC, they're using the ole, "if you can't hear it, return it" garbage to support the claims of better SQ.
Just the same ole marketing spin to sell snake-oil.
"But Galen's work is the real thing, and there's no need to wax poetic; if it helps your system sound its best, and if it's worth the money to you, that's marvelous. If it doesn't, well, de gustibus non est disputandum, and we'll take 'em back. Whether you tell us you hear a profound difference, or no difference at all, or anywhere in between, we will never tell you what you do or do not hear; and when you want to return something to us, there's no questioning and no attempt to make you change your mind -- you don't even need to call for an RMA. Just ship it back. But don't be surprised if you find yourself choosing not to do that."
Just the same ole marketing spin to sell snake-oil.
"But Galen's work is the real thing, and there's no need to wax poetic; if it helps your system sound its best, and if it's worth the money to you, that's marvelous. If it doesn't, well, de gustibus non est disputandum, and we'll take 'em back. Whether you tell us you hear a profound difference, or no difference at all, or anywhere in between, we will never tell you what you do or do not hear; and when you want to return something to us, there's no questioning and no attempt to make you change your mind -- you don't even need to call for an RMA. Just ship it back. But don't be surprised if you find yourself choosing not to do that."
Dimitri
Senior Member
All we need a a way to objectively measure and classify these performances :
Speakers, amplifiers and cables will be too easy afterwards.
In case you don't click to watch the video or you are not an opera fan:
A few of those guys make the rest of them sound "meh".
My favorite is Mario del Monaco.
Most cable manufacturers are usually providing datasheet with properly done electrical and mechanical measurements, like resistance and capacitance per a given size (foot, mile, meter, km), mechanical strength etc. Everyone can easily calculate power-loss/attenuation based on the datasheet and choose proper cables based on thickness, resistance, capacitance, strength, colour, ease to fold etc.
When cables are correctly choose, based on manufacturer's specs (low enough resistance for a good damping factor and low capacitance to minimise risk for oscillations for that specific amplifier), then I see no reasons to be any sonically differences between the cables, no matter it's silver vs. gold vs. copper.
Speedskater
Major Contributor
Yep, with reasonable, conventional loudspeakers and reasonable, conventional speaker cables, what matters most is the end-to-end resistance of the cable pair compared to the loudspeaker impedance/frequency curve. If the cable resistance is small compared to the low points on the loudspeaker curve then no differences will be heard.
Hi
There is a movement toward a (for the lack of a better term) Science-based audiophilia, this site being one of the better exemples. The movement is getting momentum.
We should not however think that regular, subjective audiophilia and the people who peddles those wares will disappear. The market is there, vibrant. The customers are the staunchest defenders. One funny thing is , most of those customers and influencers are people with reduced auditory abilities... It becomes a point of honor for them to hear more, to hear better and to be able to perceive what the most sensitive instruments can't. A multi-hundred of millions of euros/dollars business relies on this ... On people thinking they hear things they can't. Of course we should not exclude vanity from such a discussion. We all exhibit it at one level or the other. The so-called audio-shrine is a representation of vanity , one I confess to indulge in... An invisible audio installation is not something I would find pleasure in ...
The same happens in all facets of life: from Martha Stewart lifestyles Home wares to Audio cables designed by ... gurus who make your system play better, make the darkgound black-er and looks like gigantic snakes in the listening room. Once you see such a tidy system you know you're in presence of a serious audiophiles , likely he (99.99999998% of the time) will also have a phono f the same caliber and the same price range ..
A famous (?) audiophile posted and maintained that once he moved his cables, he had to let them settle for at least a week before the system recovers and sounds good !!! Declared with a straight face and he went on to have his own web site and magazine.. along with another audiophile who reviews mostly on Youtube ...
Another who left us on this planet (RIP) had the "+ " sign of his speaker cable and the"-" made of different metal... He claimed everything sounded better because ....
There is a >$80,000 cable with a huge box with rack ears and a control for its (verbatim) "poles of articulation" whatever that means here it is
MIT Cables website seems to be down .. Are they out of business? Momentary shutdown due to covid-19?
There is a movement toward a (for the lack of a better term) Science-based audiophilia, this site being one of the better exemples. The movement is getting momentum.
We should not however think that regular, subjective audiophilia and the people who peddles those wares will disappear. The market is there, vibrant. The customers are the staunchest defenders. One funny thing is , most of those customers and influencers are people with reduced auditory abilities... It becomes a point of honor for them to hear more, to hear better and to be able to perceive what the most sensitive instruments can't. A multi-hundred of millions of euros/dollars business relies on this ... On people thinking they hear things they can't. Of course we should not exclude vanity from such a discussion. We all exhibit it at one level or the other. The so-called audio-shrine is a representation of vanity , one I confess to indulge in... An invisible audio installation is not something I would find pleasure in ...
The same happens in all facets of life: from Martha Stewart lifestyles Home wares to Audio cables designed by ... gurus who make your system play better, make the darkgound black-er and looks like gigantic snakes in the listening room. Once you see such a tidy system you know you're in presence of a serious audiophiles , likely he (99.99999998% of the time) will also have a phono f the same caliber and the same price range ..
A famous (?) audiophile posted and maintained that once he moved his cables, he had to let them settle for at least a week before the system recovers and sounds good !!! Declared with a straight face and he went on to have his own web site and magazine.. along with another audiophile who reviews mostly on Youtube ...
Another who left us on this planet (RIP) had the "+ " sign of his speaker cable and the"-" made of different metal... He claimed everything sounded better because ....
There is a >$80,000 cable with a huge box with rack ears and a control for its (verbatim) "poles of articulation" whatever that means here it is
MIT Cables website seems to be down .. Are they out of business? Momentary shutdown due to covid-19?
