Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[Ken1951]

I take your point - but a Stradivarius creates sound. It doesn't reproduce it. That's the issue with artisanal hi-fi gear - to each their own of course, but the idea that you put your trust in a speaker designer to be an "artist" who applies a blanket "artistic interpretation" to every piece of music you listen to is IMHO inherently a more suspect proposition than a musical instrument designer being an artist whose work imparts a specific tone or sound characteristic to everything you play on it.

I will freely admit I'm no expert on violins, but I know a little bit about the world of guitars and this artistic issue is precisely why every professional guitarist (and many amateurs who have the money) owns several different guitars that they use for different purposes.

Back in the dark ages when I still played, my Martin tenor sax sounded different than my Selmer MK6 tenor, which sounded different from an old Conn tenor I had. I want my hi-fi equipment to reproduce those differences and the differences between whatever is on different recordings as faithfully as possible. Not be an "instrument" themselves. If a manufacturer wants otherwise, then be upfront about it. Own it.

 

[CleanSound]

I've met Dr Choueiri a couple of times and briefly visited his lab. I found the quote highly suspect and thought to ask him about it, but then I figured it wasn't worth dragging him into this...

Well, someone made the claim on the Tekton FB group that they personally know Edgar and Edgar denied such quote.

I'm only reporting what I saw.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Here is where I believe the main disconnect is - Amir and Erin like accurate flat response speakers. The m lores are not designed to be, there used to be or is a model called the lore reference that was supposedly accurate, but less preferred by some to the response of the m lore. Amir doesn’t like a lot of things like the original Kef ls-50s, but likes the metas. Most I know who own or listen to both can eq the ls50s to sound the same, or prefer the ogs. Sean olive and Harmon have their favorite non linear tweaks, why can’t Tekton have theirs? Amir, why not just show the data, and let the readers decide? Why the I recommend, or I don’t recommend comments, when surely you are aware others have different hearing preferences than you? When did buying an AP and Klippel become the “I am now the god of what gear sounds good, and what gear will sound like crap?”

Are you kidding? Have you read this thread? This is 100 pages of discussion about Eric calling out Erin and Amir for doing measurements wrong while out of the other side of his mouth saying measurements don’t matter. It’s a shit show. This site is about engineering excellence and good measurements are proof of that.

 

[tmtomh]

I totally get and agree with your point.

But I also know there are for a fact very informed audio aficionados that know gear and make choices that simply sound their perceived best for their very focused preference. One of my best friends, for example, owns gear he completely knows doesn't measure great universally - yet play a 1960s recording of a Chopin etude through... and if you don't shed a tear you're not human.

It just depends on what your personal goal is. And being educated to explore different things is powerful. I know what my preferences are, and even though they don't always coincide with Amir's, hey. I am a dedicated donor on this site and I utterly applaud the education here. Through the educational videos, the measurements, and the exchanges with the community. In my few years here, I have learned more about the hobby than in 40 years previously.

All good points - we are in agreement.

 

[Eytsch]

The above was either written by Eric or the poster is part of a Tekton cult up in the mountains of Utah worshipping at Trypophobia inducing tweeter array altars.

Nice. Came here for the trypophobia reference. Not disappointed. A++++

 

[Hart]

His letter reminds me of the letter in Confedercy of Dunces. The book won a Pulitzer prize after the author committed suicide because he could not get his manuscript published. Here it is:

Abelman’s Dry Goods
Kansas City, Missouri
USA
Mr. I. Abelman, Mongoloid, Esq.:
We have received via post your absurd comments about our trousers, the comments revealing, as they did, your total lack of contact with reality. Were you more aware, you would know or realize by now that the offending trousers were dispatched to you with our full knowledge that they were inadequate so far as length was concerned.
“Why? Why?” you are in your incomprehensible babble, unable to assimilate stimulating concepts of commerce into your retarded and blighted worldview.
The trousers were sent to you (1) as a means of testing your initiative (A clever, wide-awake business concern should be able to make three-quarter length trousers a by-word of masculine fashion. Your advertising and merchandising programs are obviously faulty.) and (2) as a means of testing your ability to meet the standards requisite in a distributor of our quality product. (Our loyal and dependable outlets can vend any trouser bearing the Levy label no matter how abominable their design and construction. You are apparently a faithless people.)
We do not wish to be bothered in the future by such tedious complaints. Please confine your correspondence to orders only. We are a busy and dynamic organization whose mission needless effrontery and harassment can only hinder. If you molest us again, sir, you may feel the sting of the lash across your pitiful shoulders.
Yours in anger,
Gus Levy, Pres.


Lastly, I do not think you should sign off as "respectfully" unless you have been respectful.

 

[Mnyb]

I take your point - but a Stradivarius creates sound. It doesn't reproduce it. That's the issue with artisanal hi-fi gear - to each their own of course, but the idea that you put your trust in a speaker designer to be an "artist" who applies a blanket "artistic interpretation" to every piece of music you listen to is IMHO inherently a more suspect proposition than a musical instrument designer being an artist whose work imparts a specific tone or sound characteristic to everything you play on it.

I will freely admit I'm no expert on violins, but I know a little bit about the world of guitars and this artistic issue is precisely why every professional guitarist (and many amateurs who have the money) owns several different guitars that they use for different purposes.

+1
It’s very inefficient and I would not trust them I still want my third party measurement even for those products.
Thier artisan methods probably does not include blind testing . If he ( it usually is ) spend months scratching his beard and listen to paper in oil capacitors for the crossover and internal silver wiring you pay for it in the product .

Also for the QC your design migth not work due to driver parameters are not exactly what the manufacturer promised and they may change over time and not be very well documented.

For a commercial product I would not trust the bass alignment without measurement and if you use much damping materials it’s hard to simulate exactly .

 

[Gwreck]

Well, someone made the claim on the Tekton FB group that they personally know Edgar and Edgar denied such quote.

I'm only reporting what I saw.
View attachment 364048

That is sleazy of Eric.

 

[Inertiaman]

EA is obviously an obsessive. He cannot read measurements, and his writing skills should not have carried him out of middle school. There is no way he has sold 250,000 pairs of loudspeakers, as I saw someone suggest. (Posters on audio forums tend to overestimate the popularity of this hobby.)

I didn't suggest it. I simply referred to Eric A's direct, unsolicited verbal *statement* in his YouTube video, which is documented in the verbatim transcript of the video (attached in complete .txt earlier in this thread). Eric said he had sold "multiple six figures". ie, >200k.

Feel free to believe Eric A or not, but don't accuse "posters on audio forums" of overestimation when they are simply re-stating the dubious claims of Mr. Alexander.

 

[squeedle]

I didn't suggest it. I simply referred to Eric A's direct, unsolicited verbal *statement* in his YouTube video, which is documented in the verbatim transcript of the video (attached in complete .txt earlier in this thread). Eric said he had sold "multiple six figures". ie, >200k.

The only way he's sold hundreds of thousands is if he counts by drivers...since each speaker has like 100 drivers in it. LOL. And I thought his video said "the HIGH hundreds of thousands", so IDK what that means but that could be up to a million LOL. Wonder how many dozens of employees he has working 24 hours a day...

 

[ScofieldKid]

After some import and manipulation of factory measurements of the Eminence Alpha-8A and (assumed tweeter) Peerless BC25TG15-04 I came up with this guessed crossover for the M Lore. The manipulation comprises subtracting IEC baffle and applying enclosure response to the Alpha-8A and baffle diffraction to both woofer and tweeter.

The top left chart shows the combined on axis frequency response (black) with Klippel measured on axis response (From Amir's first post) overlaid in purple. There's not a great correlation with the Alpha 8A and some discrepancies with the tweeter response (assuming I even have the right tweeter). In both cases, minimum phase data was applied with 14mm offset for the tweeter (assuming a woofer listening / design axis):
View attachment 363842
The crossover for the above is:
View attachment 363843

If my ancient memory of this speaker is correct, I thought the theory of the design was that he was running the woofer as a full-range. So in effect, there would only be crossover features going to the tweeter. (I could be completely wrong, but that is what I thought the theory of the design was.)

 

[Dave Bullet]

If my ancient memory of this speaker is correct, I thought the theory of the design was that he was running the woofer as a full-range. So in effect, there would only be crossover features going to the tweeter. (I could be completely wrong, but that is what I thought the theory of the design was.)

I don't think so. the primary breakup of the Alpha-8A would at least need a notch. It's not like the Seas A26 for example which has a 2nd order more or less natural roll off (HP):

Green is the unfiltered Alpha 8A. With a nominal 2nd order crossover on the tweeter (no padding) there's a prominent ~ 3.5KHz peak. The orange dashed line is Amir's on axis klippel measurement for reference. there's definitely a LP filter on the Alpha

 

[Talisman]

Just for amusement, look at cheapaudioman Tekton Lore super positive subjective review one year ago

At 5:08 you see him carrying the speaker around, guess what with no feet on:

View attachment 363585
So maybe he installed them later? But at 7:22 he says

"...also I ordered grills but I don't have the grills and I didn't get spikes or things I gotta talk to Eric I'm sure he'll send them out but order grills no grills..."

I never intervened in the thread because it seemed to me it was already full of every possible thing and because certain situations are so grotesque that you can only read in disbelief, and I wouldn't have had anything useful to add to the discussion that hadn't already been said by others.
Just one thing about Cheapaudioman, he's not a scientist, nor an audio engineer and doesn't pretend to be one, he's just another guy on YouTube who does subjective reviews and is passionate about audio, like probably everyone in here, despite not considering his reviews particularly useful for making purchasing decisions, I have always found his videos entertaining and enjoyable to watch, without demanding high-level information.
I don't see anything strange in the fact that he liked this speaker and probably I too, if I listened to it, would find it pleasant (just as I find other speakers with less than enthusiastic reviews pleasant). Let's remember to separate the absolutely absurd attitude of the manufacturer from the product itself, which seems like a decent product at least.

 

[thewas]

The problem of such people (which are often found also in the "high end" audio) is that its hard to tell if they are purely incompetent or purely dishonest or a what a percentage mixture with both. So he could be writing these emails either as he believes this nonsense to make his ego feel better or to prepare a narrative for his marketing "we (supposedly) re-measured and cannot confirm ASR or EAC measurements but they refuse to check with us". Also he managed that people like stated Erin they will never review any loudspeakers of their brand again so it will be easier to keep up their false claims, its almost impossible to really discuss with such people and possibly only legal actions in the opposite direction could give an end but as it is written this can cost a lot of money, time and nerves which most wouldn't risk.

 

[voodooless]

The problem of such people (which are often found also in the "high end" audio) is that its hard to tell if they are purely incompetent or purely dishonest or a what a percentage mixture with both.

That’s what Hanlon’s Razor is for

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

 

[CleanSound]

@amirm I know you made a comment on EA's post on the Tekton's FB group when he fake apologized to Erin, I think he deleted your comment.

I really believe EA is now embarking on a misinformation campaign, by deleting anything he can that shows the history and trying to create fake snippets to fabricate a new narrative.

I encourage you to make a video, documenting everything that EA said and did in chronological order so that it can be memorized. The reason for that is because as I've mentioned before, EA will try to delete as much of the evidence as he can, and drown the Internet with repeating lies of his newly fabricated narrative and overtime, if he repeats the lie enough times, the truth will be forgotten.

I also encourage all ASR members who have screenshots of what EA have said in other parts of the Internet and those who have downloaded EA's now deleted two YouTube videos make them available to Amir.

I'm not trying to "lead" this conversation, I'm only giving ideas to CYA so that one's professional reputation is preserved, because I know how people like EA works.

EDIT: I see Amir's comment again. Not sure what's going on, I selected "All comments" every time. This is the comment from Amir that didn't show up last night, but is showing up again now. Either or, I think we all know what's coming, a misinformation campaign to change the narrative.

 

[Tangogod]

Well, someone made the claim on the Tekton FB group that they personally know Edgar and Edgar denied such quote.

Eric now deleted that glowing reference?

 

[nygafre]

@amirm I know you made a comment on EA's post on the Tekton's FB group when he fake apologized to Erin, I think he deleted your comment.

I really believe EA is now embarking on a misinformation campaign, by deleting anything he can that shows the history and trying to create fake snippets to fabricate a new narrative.

I encourage you to make a video, documenting everything that EA said and did in chronological order so that it can be memorized. The reason for that is because as I've mentioned before, EA will try to delete as much of the evidence as he can, and drown the Internet with repeating lies of his newly fabricated narrative and overtime, if he repeats the lie enough times, the truth will be forgotten.

I also encourage all ASR members who have screenshots of what EA have said in other parts of the Internet and those who have downloaded EA's now deleted two YouTube videos make them available to Amir.

I'm not trying to "lead" this conversation, I'm only giving ideas to CYA so that one's professional reputation is preserved, because I know how people like EA works.

I get your points, but perhaps it’s just better to let the man bark? He seems to create new lies and misinformation by the day; now also twisting something that Dr. choueiri expressed about Tekton too. That he can’t even quote something said in a truthful and ethical manner now kinda erradicates what little compassion I had left for the guy. He truly is his own demise.

(And yes, just pile up evidence of everything that’s being said meanwhile).

If he eventually manages to create a narrative that makes him keep some customers, good for him. No need to care at all.

Erins approach of ‘done’ seems a good strategy.. but I do get a feeling that Erin hasn’t heard the last from ‘Mr Tekton’. Ah, sigh..

 

[Ninjastar]

I peeked at the FB post to read that person clarifying Dr. Choueiri's supposed quote and it's gone.

Also Eric is responding to someone who claims to have purchased speakers from him but is asking him to answer for what has happened here and he replied

"Amir was forced to change/update his measurements - that's a win for Tekton Design. In fact he admitted he couldn't correct the 'step response' - an even bigger win for Tekton Design. The fact that measurements have been updated and changed is a win for Tekton Design and vindication."

Are you kidding, me?

Same person asked him "Will you post the measurements?" (seemingly referring to the flat FR measured by Dr. Choueiri)

He replied simply, "No"

 

[caught gesture]

I peeked at the FB post to read that person clarifying Dr. Choueiri's supposed quote and it's gone.

Also Eric is responding to someone who claims to have purchased speakers from him but is asking him to answer for what has happened here and he replied



Are you kidding, me?

Same person asked him "Will you post the measurements?" (seemingly referring to the flat FR measured by Dr. Choueiri)

He replied simply, "No"

Alternative facts. It works for world leaders and it’s part of the facebook business model. Caveat emptor.