Do CD players sound different to each other?

[DSJR]

And arrogantly,nowhere in your post do we find 'in my opinion'.

I did try to justify what I said and I think you may have found that Denon, Sony, maybe JVC (unknown to me sadly) and others actually *did* perform better and more truthfully in terms of sonics I now realise, as they weren't tweaking for What HiFi 5* reviews...

To me, what I posted seemed repeated and factual, using these things every working day often for hours on end in dems. The 63KI version DID NOT endear itself well with better and wider-open partnering systems and this was repeatable *over many dems and systems - in our experience* but the original version was actually very pleasant indeed if maybe self effacing perhaps? I can't remember the final OSE version which kind-of replaced both from memory. All a long time ago now and most of these things will be in landfill...

 

[Roland68]

My friend came across an old Marantz CD73 player, where there were some problems with the mechanics. The sledge didn't work as intended for example. Now he has fixed it and will sell the player. He and I were surprised at the amount of money these old vintage CD players were being advertised for.

Used Marantz CD73 CD players for Sale | HifiShark.com

Used Marantz CD73 CD players for sale on 400+ second hand hifi sites & shops. Use Hifi Shark to monitor pricing and global availability

www.hifishark.com

I have listened to it and what can I say, hmm? It worked and sounded like any other CD player I've heard. I personally use a Sony Blu-ray player (bought used for $25) with digital out plugged into my Topping E30 DAC if I use CDs. Works fine for me. I wouldn't trade that combo for a Marantz CD73 even if I got that player for free.

Here are pictures of his Marantz CD73. He is trying to sell it for $460. We'll see if anyone is interested. It is completely incomprehensible to me how anyone wants to spend so much money on a really old CD player. But okay I don't criticize other people's hobbies and choices. People can do what they want.
View attachment 363913
View attachment 363914

Marantz cd-73

Utropspris: 5000 kr. Typ: Auktion. Slutar: 2024-04-17 22:06:27. Köp & sälj begagnade & oanvända Stereoförstärkare på Tradera.

www.tradera.com

Edit:
However, I can understand spending money on a good vintage amp/receiver. There you can actually get good performance for little money.
That is as long as you don't buy one of the most sought-after models.

The Marantz CD73 is not valued so highly because it is supposed to sound so great, but because it was one of the first CD players with a drawer and is therefore a collector's item. Identical in construction to the Philips CD 300 and the prices for functional devices range from €200 to over €500, depending on condition.

 

[DanielT]

The Marantz CD73 is not valued so highly because it is supposed to sound so great, but because it was one of the first CD players with a drawer and is therefore a collector's item. Identical in construction to the Philips CD 300 and the prices for functional devices range from €200 to over €500, depending on condition.

Aha, that explains it and well why not, you buy HiFi history.

 

[Roland68]

I'm just pointing out old Lego kits for two-figure amounts that sell for several thousand today.
Or individual Lego figures for up to €5000 each... a Lego figure...

These CD players as collector's items are special offers, they only cost a fraction of the new price and not x times as much.

 

[Snarfie]

Wondering if you could hear a difference when you rip a cd to a hdd or ssd drive an compare with the fysical CD drive which has probably a bit of time based error (jitter). For that matter could you hear same sort time based error between a hdd or ssd drive. And or could you measure that.

 

[Down South]

How much do the original Philips/Marantz CDPs' go for? I believe some buy them just to get the TDA 1541 chips. I must say that the design was avante-garde. I can't get back to the UK because of my wife's ongoing health problems, that's where the CDP is, in the loft of my wife's friend.

 

[DanielT]

I'm just pointing out old Lego kits for two-figure amounts that sell for several thousand today.
Or individual Lego figures for up to €5000 each... a Lego figure...

These CD players as collector's items are special offers, they only cost a fraction of the new price and not x times as much.

The Marantz CD73 seems to have cost around $500 in 1983. In today's monetary value, the equivalent is just over $1500.

Measurements on the Marantz CD73 are reported here:

Review Marantz CD73 Compact Disc player - 1984 - DutchAudioClassics.nl

DutchAudioClassics.nl - Photos and information of classic Marantz & Philips cd-players

www.dutchaudioclassics.nl

 

[antcollinet]

Wondering if you could hear a difference when you rip a cd to a hdd or ssd drive an compare with the fysical CD drive which has probably a bit of time based error (jitter). For that matter could you hear same sort time based error between a hdd or ssd drive. And or could you measure that.

The jitter from any mechanics is eliminated by buffering the data, and clocking it out of the buffer with an accurate clock.

CD - and the ripped version of the CD will sound identical.

 

[Roland68]

Wondering if you could hear a difference when you rip a cd to a hdd or ssd drive an compare with the fysical CD drive which has probably a bit of time based error (jitter). For that matter could you hear same sort time based error between a hdd or ssd drive. And or could you measure that.

If a comparison is made when ripping, where should the sonic differences come from? There are enough tools with which you can make a BIT accurate comparison. They have nothing to measure, because there is no unit smaller than bits.
If you hear a tonal difference, it's coming from jitter on the final track, or the analog section.

Two comments on this.
I previously worked on the development of professional CD jukebox systems for data backup and small series (including music). That was over 25 years ago and even then, bit-perfect copies were a solved problem.
I spent another 10 years in high availability IT with responsibility for 50-150 TB of productive data that had to be backed up, copied, moved to other raids, etc. How many bits do you think were lost in 10 years?

 

[Mart68]

It is completely incomprehensible to me how anyone wants to spend so much money on a really old CD player. But okay I don't criticize other people's hobbies and choices. People can do what they want.
View attachment 363913

People buy them because they look the business, unlike the vast majority of current players that resemble something a high-rent brass might keep a stash of prophylactics in.

They just take a chance on its remaining life-span.

 

[Robin L]

Starting around 1988, I had a series of budget CD players, maybe one (Sony) not so budget. I read the audio publications claiming that certain players were more successful than others at reproducing full fidelity, but by and large found the sound lacking resolution. I didn't really find "audio nirvana" with a CD player until the mid- 1990s. I had a Radio Shack 3400 portable player:

With a massive rechargeable battery power supply, hooked up (via its SPDIF output) to a t.c. electronics M2000 reverb box, 20 bit capable, that had a fine DAC onboard:

However, some 30 years later, the combination of a Sony BDP-BX57 Blu Ray player connected to a Topping E30 DAC gives me the best results I've heard so far from a CD player, with everything in focus and the sense of surrounding acoustic shifting from recording to recording as it should. My sense is that there has been a real improvement in CD playback since the format was introduced. However, the jump to a format that lacked background noises was more than enough for certain audiophiles when the format first appeared.

 

[DanielT]

People buy them because they look the business, unlike the vast majority of current players that resemble something a high-rent brass might keep a stash of prophylactics in.

They just take a chance on its remaining life-span.

It is cool, vintage good looking. I'll admit that.

I mostly listen to streamed music but sometimes I turn on the Blu-Ray player. Then together with the Topping E30 DAC because it is then easy to use its volume control.

 

[Mart68]

It is cool, vintage good looking. I'll admit that.

I mostly listen to streamed music but sometimes I turn on the Blu-Ray player. Then together with the Topping E30 DAC because it is then easy to use its volume control.

I like the retro-futuristic thing about playing a CD.

I'd never get tired of opening and closing the drawer on that Marantz.

 

[Old Iron]

I actually wanted to launch this question about CD players sound differences. At the risk that I have not had a chance to read this thread. Because of client deadline demands!
I will offer up my knowledge. These days most all CD players in quality brands have all these boxes check.

Good to excellent transport. Good to excellent DAC's with good to excellent output stages. OK to excellent clock jitter management. OK to excellent power supply's.
So the common denominator?

The bit error correction algorithm.

When Sony decided to get into the state of the art digital studio recording machines. Part of a challenge to the Ampex ATR analog two track mastering machines. Also as well the Studer machines. Sony went way big!

Sony that already had decades of experience with with the U-Matic system. And they had bought the patents from Ampex for the rotary head video commercial machines.
They were smart as hell. They realized if they can make a digital multi track studio machines. That can still be be spliced and edited by hand like an analog machine. It would kill the competition. Welcome to the DASH format. Hand cut a 2, 24, 48 Track tape like and audio tape and have the error correction recover all that stuff!!!! F%#ing Genius!
But how?

The Extraordinary Sony PCM-3348HR Digital Multitrack Recorder

The Sony PCM-3348HR is a 48-channel 24-bit/16-bit digital audio recorder, using 1/2-inch tape in DASH (Digital Audio Stationary Head) and DASH PLUS formats.

www.vintagedigital.com.au

Some of this error correction algorithm has made it into some of the better consumer equipment!
Tascam professional CD RW have a killer algorithm.

For higher end CD players. All made by Sony. I want to harvest these chips and reverse engineer them into new systems.
I have tons of info to back all this up.

 

[Old Iron]

Starting around 1988, I had a series of budget CD players, maybe one (Sony) not so budget. I read the audio publications claiming that certain players were more successful than others at reproducing full fidelity, but by and large found the sound lacking resolution. I didn't really find "audio nirvana" with a CD player until the mid- 1990s. I had a Radio Shack 3400 portable player:

View attachment 363960

With a massive rechargeable battery power supply, hooked up (via its SPDIF output) to a t.c. electronics M2000 reverb box, 20 bit capable, that had a fine DAC onboard:

View attachment 363961

However, some 30 years later, the combination of a Sony BDP-BX57 Blu Ray player connected to a Topping E30 DAC gives me the best results I've heard so far from a CD player, with everything in focus and the sense of surrounding acoustic shifting from recording to recording as it should. My sense is that there has been a real improvement in CD playback since the format was introduced. However, the jump to a format that lacked background noises was more than enough for certain audiophiles when the format first appeared.

Please see my post about the amazing Sony studio machines.

 

[Old Iron]

The two portable players with what they called 1 Bit DAC's?

 

[Old Iron]

Sorry 30 years later. Yes!
Fair to say 1 Bit DAC's can have a real advantage in what we call now. FIFO error management. Just a speculation on my part.
The old pro studio machines were working wonders for there time!

 

[Old Iron]

Live performance to the audience.
Live performance to vinyl master.
Live sound to tape.

For me MFSL did one of the best services to help restore that goal.
My vinyl is down in the basement stored safe.
So sad.

 

[antcollinet]

Live performance to the audience.
Live performance to vinyl master.
Live sound to tape.

For me MFSL did one of the best services to help restore that goal.
My vinyl is down in the basement stored safe.
So sad.

you need to quote the post you are replying to. Otherwise we have no idea what you are saying.

 

[antcollinet]

I actually wanted to launch this question about CD players sound differences. At the risk that I have not had a chance to read this thread. Because of client deadline demands!
I will offer up my knowledge. These days most all CD players in quality brands have all these boxes check.

Good to excellent transport. Good to excellent DAC's with good to excellent output stages. OK to excellent clock jitter management. OK to excellent power supply's.
So the common denominator?

The bit error correction algorithm.

When Sony decided to get into the state of the art digital studio recording machines. Part of a challenge to the Ampex ATR analog two track mastering machines. Also as well the Studer machines. Sony went way big!

Sony that already had decades of experience with with the U-Matic system. And they had bought the patents from Ampex for the rotary head video commercial machines.
They were smart as hell. They realized if they can make a digital multi track studio machines. That can still be be spliced and edited by hand like an analog machine. It would kill the competition. Welcome to the DASH format. Hand cut a 2, 24, 48 Track tape like and audio tape and have the error correction recover all that stuff!!!! F%#ing Genius!
But how?

The Extraordinary Sony PCM-3348HR Digital Multitrack Recorder

The Sony PCM-3348HR is a 48-channel 24-bit/16-bit digital audio recorder, using 1/2-inch tape in DASH (Digital Audio Stationary Head) and DASH PLUS formats.

www.vintagedigital.com.au

Some of this error correction algorithm has made it into some of the better consumer equipment!
Tascam professional CD RW have a killer algorithm.

For higher end CD players. All made by Sony. I want to harvest these chips and reverse engineer them into new systems.
I have tons of info to back all this up.

Bit error correction is largely irrelevant, due to the fact with a properly working transport, and non damaged CD, the bit error rate is close to zero.

People here have captured the output from transports from different players and compared them. Identical to the bit.

Even comparing successive captures from the same machine would result in compare errors if there were a significant bit error rate, since different errors would occur each time. But no, nothing.