Don't set your subwoofer on the floor

[Chrispy]

As a thought experiment I've wondered about 4 subs in the front 4 corners of a room. This gets you all the same room modes, but with use of the upper front corners lets you sling about more subs without eating up precious room real estate out in the room. Then being the devious and impractical audiophile I am, my mind went immediately to the idea of a stacked column floor to ceiling in the front two corners for maximum sub output capability. Like maybe a solid stack of Dayton Audio 12 inch subs or some such crazy idea. Eventually of course I end up with a Grateful Dead-like wall of sound. But then the Wall of Sound reminds me of Phil Spector sound and I write the whole thing off as a bad idea.

I believe Mark Seaton has setup several rooms with his subs just that way.

 

[fieldcar]

Even with rubber feet your subs move around? I agree and think the knock test is legit, that is, to knock on your speaker/subwoofers enclosure and if it sounds solid it's better, of course a heavy enclosure is all part of that as well. Since I like my music loud countless times my speakers have moved around on their own and I blame the enclosure

Yeah. Part of the problem is the carpet is pretty thick, so it doesn't sink down enough to anchor it. The 550P's have an incredibly overbuilt enclosure, but still jump around with ~15-30Hz LFE effects if I use the rubber feet. I'd say that the SB2000pro's enclosure is pretty lacking. It's not nearly as heavy and dense as the 550p's. It's not that big of a deal since most of my music really doesn't go that low.

 

[Jukebox]

Well, Rel just posted their "Dial in a Line Array of REL Acoustics Subwoofers" guide; on and off the floor for that matter; Seems like all the science based methods of placing subwoofer in your room (aka Welti research) are not the way to go when we talking audiophiles stuff

 

[bo_knows]

Another sub in the back corner too.

View attachment 156240

Thank you for the complete picture of Harman's room.

 

[JWAmerica]

With the TV stand in the way I could only place the subwoofer in the corner rather than midway across the front wall. Elevating it helped smooth the response. A second sub would be a better option, but it's not currently possible.

 

[frankrcarter]

As a thought experiment I've wondered about 4 subs in the front 4 corners of a room. This gets you all the same room modes, but with use of the upper front corners lets you sling about more subs without eating up precious room real estate out in the room. Then being the devious and impractical audiophile I am, my mind went immediately to the idea of a stacked column floor to ceiling in the front two corners for maximum sub output capability. Like maybe a solid stack of Dayton Audio 12 inch subs or some such crazy idea. Eventually of course I end up with a Grateful Dead-like wall of sound. But then the Wall of Sound reminds me of Phil Spector sound and I write the whole thing off as a bad idea.

Exactly! I plan to build out my theater with a baffle wall and I already bought 4 Ultimax 18's. I was thinking of some platform to place on top of the floor sub to hold it's pair near the ceiling at each of the front corners. If something is not ridiculous to most, I don't want any part of it .

 

[weasels]

i feel you're guys missing few points:

1) Hi-Fi advice =/= Home Cinema Advice where there are multiple seats.

2) Even if he thinks a certain way, the customer is always right.

His advice is usually legit in a "Minimize Compromises in anyway even if it means barricading your windows" kind of way.

Point #2 is often misused. The original states "The customer is always right in matters of taste".

In other words, if you think it's trashy or gauche as a salesperson, keep your opinion to yourself.

If it's just wrong or bad, the customer is not always right.

 

[abdo123]

Point #2 is often misused. The original states "The customer is always right in matters of taste".

In other words, if you think it's trashy or gauche as a salesperson, keep your opinion to yourself.

If it's just wrong or bad, the customer is not always right.

I'm pretty sure the location of the subwoofer in the room is considered under taste too.

 

[Chrispy]

I'm pretty sure the location of the subwoofer in the room is considered under taste too.

Maybe. Sometimes practical/performance considerations are paramount rather than for aesthetics.

 

[JWAmerica]

Exactly! I plan to build out my theater with a baffle wall and I already bought 4 Ultimax 18's. I was thinking of some platform to place on top of the floor sub to hold it's pair near the ceiling at each of the front corners. If something is not ridiculous to most, I don't want any part of it .

I do believe it would be an improvement over two subs, but it would be worthwhile compare with having two subs at the rear (still four total).

 

[JRS]

Nope. This is all nonsense is the point.

For getting the energy more directly in the chest (?)

The best slam I have experienced were in a small basement studio with large horns (guessing the throats were 8' across) being driven by 4 JBL 15" drivers per side. Very clean and impactful should anyone be doing a custom house and wants to pour some concrete.

 

[Inner Space]

The best slam I have experienced were in a small basement studio with large horns (guessing the throats were 8' across) being driven by 4 JBL 15" drivers per side. Very clean and impactful should anyone be doing a custom house and wants to pour some concrete.

I bet it was fun. I've been in similar spaces - like being inside the speaker. But people should remember that perceived "chest slam" happens at around 100Hz - nothing to do with subwoofers.

 

[JRS]

I bet it was fun. I've been in similar spaces - like being inside the speaker. But people should remember that perceived "chest slam" happens at around 100Hz - nothing to do with subwoofers.

True. These were stereo and so while the slam was above the usual SW band, they were very capable and articulate all the way down. Otherwise the best bass I have experienced is IB which when properly implemented seems to be more articulate than either ported or sealed.

 

[Soundmixer]

Yes, you get maximum room gain, but that does not mean it’s the best location for an even frequency response. A better location is actually along a wall right in the middle. Especially with multiple subs.

Actually, the locations that Welti found the best start off with 4 subs in the 4 corners, so it IS ONE of the best locations. The other location he mentioned was the one you mentioned, but he also said that location has the least low-frequency support.

 

[youngho]

What I struggle with is the concept of using a large diaphragmatic absorber, since wouldn't this be essentially absorbing significant acoustic output from the initial boundary reflection?

Yes, that's right, ideally at or near the modal frequencies in order to address at least some standing waves. However, it's not like a black hole that would suck out the bass response and cause a null. Travelling waves would still be present.

 

[Tim Link]

Here's a review of the SubTrap, which also lifts the subwoofer off the floor:

Product Review

He provides some RT30 measurements with and without the SubTrap.

 

[Astrozombie]

I have mine on subdudes.....

 

[GimeDsp]

Here's a review of the SubTrap, which also lifts the subwoofer off the floor:

Product Review

He provides some RT30 measurements with and without the SubTrap.

I believe the sub trap and raising off floor In general is a solution to the problem of 8 foot ceilings.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Harman placed their sub on the floor in a corner in their "reference listening room". May be this guy knows things that Dr. Olive et. al. don't?

The Harman International Reference Listening Room

Last week I returned from the AES Munich Convention where I gave a paper entitled ” A New Reference Listening Room for Consumer, Professi...

seanolive.blogspot.com

Room front picture from is from this link.
View attachment 156236

Harman likely has cement slab below that "flooring".

If you have suspended wood floors (especially 100yr old ones like mine) I can deff see decoupling the subwoofer from the floor or what I did was set mine on 140lb concrete blocks. There was a notable difference with much less vibration in the floor and other areas. This really helped keep my attention on the music, I realized I found the vibration traveling in floor to be distracting.

I have also use foam "yoga" blocks. Those work alright.

I believe I heard Harman/Toole and Geddes all recommend having 1 or two subwoofers elevated, even near the ceiling and 1 or two on the floor. I realize this is different from what this dude on youtube is saying but it might help someone here.

 

[Ultrasonic]

Yes, that's right, ideally at or near the modal frequencies in order to address at least some standing waves. However, it's not like a black hole that would suck out the bass response and cause a null. Travelling waves would still be present.

Throwing away boundary reinforcement sounds like a daft idea to me I'm afraid. Possibly there is an upside if EQ isn't being used, but it should be.