The point of diminishing for speakers is...?

[Wes]

From what price would you say speakers hit the point of diminishing returns?

$8,000 which IIRC is the price for Dutch2 8c - they rank in the top class according to Stereopile.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

$8,000 which IIRC is the price for Dutch2 8c - they rank in the top class according to Stereopile.

even the R3 have less distortion than the dutch2 8c...., 1k purifi power amp and you done.


Dutch:

R3:

 

[Wes]

HD is not everything

 

[Neddy]

My (possibly unpopular) opinion is that in audio the returns diminish very quickly. Every other speaker I bought or heard after e.g. the JBL LSR305 (~300$/pair) has been a relatively small SQ increment vs the huge SQ jump of going from some random BT, multimedia or TV loudspeaker to the 305s.
My SPL requirements are pretty low though, so that makes it easier on the budget - of course the 305s wouldn't work at large distances in big rooms.

In addition, going from no room EQ capability to a system with it will IMHO be a much bigger investment in SQ than any improvement gained from slightly better loudspeakers - this is all of course assuming the original loudspeakers have decent directivity and sufficient SPL capability.

However, in the end all that didn't stop me from upgrading my loudspeakers.

I too was curious about the 305s vs 'better' speakers, so set those up along side Kali IN8s and my custom-quasi-JBL L300/4367s (volume matched).

The difference was both greater than I expected, and less - that is, For Their Purpose, the 305s are just stunnningly good (sure, there may be others as good or sligtly better, for more $$), but - in a much larger size package - the IN8s were dramatically better sounding....and neither of those came close to the dynamics depth clarity and dynamic range of the big JBLs.
One other difference is that the smallers speakers are fine for 'background' classical music listening, but only the big ones can do justice to the dynamic range required for full orchestras.

So, I guess the answer, surprise suprise, is that It Depends. On budget, size of room, and use (critical listening vs home theater vs casual destop/TV, etc).
For critical listening, if I had to start over with brand new speakers, I'd probably look hard at the Revel towers mentioned, or maybe (used?) JBL 4367s...so something around that $5k-10k range.
I did spend LOTS of time with 4355s with 30" subs in my youth (so, maybe $30k+?) and would say that while the difference (mostly in Slam, or Loudness) was impressive, I wouldn't have paid for the difference unless I just had $$ falling out of my pants
Otherwise, for the 90% of other usage I have, the 305s are pretty dang wonderful.
If nothing else, they make a great 'comparator' to judge other speakers with (and are highly portable).

My 2cents, anyway.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

HD is not everything

But still a thing, and we are not talking about of a cheap speaker.., at 8000$ its twice as important.

 

[Wes]

eh?

 

[gsp1971]

When you are about to reach for the credit card in your wallet and at the last minute you go 'oops, maybe that's over the board'

 

[Helicopter]

Diminishing returns start with the first additional dollar spent. Let's say we do a good job picking speakers for the price, $300 speakers are going to be more than half as good as $600 speakers. $600 will be more than half as good as $1200, and so on. By the time we get to $12k per channel, there probably isn't much improvement to be had at any higher price, and $12k speakers are probably only like 20% better than $2k speakers, 50% better than $300 speakers on a good day, so far less than the 500% and 4000% price differences.

That exponential relationship between price and additional benefit is all diminishing returns is. Some things actually go to negative returns at a point. Think of how much you enjoy your first, second, tenth, and one thirtieth piece of chocolate eaten in one sitting when you started out hungry. You will benefit less from each additional piece until (with chocolates anyway) you want no more (zero additional return) and then they start harming you more and more (negative returns).

For passive speakers, by the time you get to a well-engineered bookshelf like Elac DBR62, you are on the steep part of the curve for diminishing returns.

 

[Marc v E]

I'd say the price of the genelec 8030 plus subwoofer is the point of diminishing returns on this forum. Conveniently that incorporates Kef R3, Revel, neumann and other great speakers too!

 

[warpdrive]

I like nice FR, HD, and polar graphs, but I have to be honest that my ears are not that discerning that some deviation from ideal is not going to break the experience and the music all of the sudden becomes unlistenable. I also don't listen very loudly and my rooms are not large so a good bookshelf (like a DBR-62) maybe coupled with a good sub (SVS SB1000) in my small room already reaches diminshing returns for me. I can't even fathom spending $10000 on a pair of speakers for my usage, that is way beyond what I need. Having said that, I wouldn't might getting some really nicer bookshelf like a R3 or Buchardt but I'm definitely approach diminishing returns when it's a want, not a need. I have owned a couple of the smaller Dynaudio BM and Genelec actives about 10 years ago when I was doing more production oriented hobbies, so I do like accuracy, but it's not the end all be all. I also prefer personal audio (desktop speakers, headphones) so my needs are pretty simple.

If you have to means to spend a lot, why not...it's just money and it's meant to be spent. But I treat it as a hobby so I can enjoy my music.

 

[tomtoo]

What do you mean by 55 and 85?

I would say something between 10 to 11?

 

[muslhead]

$8,000 which IIRC is the price for Dutch2 8c - they rank in the top class according to Stereopile.

I'd love to know where you could pick up a new pair of 8c's for $8k. List is $12.5k now. Maybe could find a deal on the studio version but I can tell you first hand no dealer in the US i selling for $8k for the non-studio version

 

[abdo123]

even the R3 have less distortion than the dutch2 8c...., 1k purifi power amp and you done.


Dutch:
View attachment 140905



R3:

the Dutch & Dutch 8C will have a better REAL in-room response anyway because of it's cardioid radiation at 100Hz and above. it's a real piece of work but for 6 times the price it might be worth it when no other speaker in the world does this currently.

 

[gsp1971]

A quick chart, price in euros vs. score.
Data from https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/index.html
Once you reach the score threshold of 80%, it's good enough, it seems.

 

[Robin L]

It depends entirely on the room the speakers will be in and the specific needs being addressed. I'm in a small enough room that Wilson Audio towers will not be an option. It's gonna be desktop audio. If I want full range there's gonna be a sub. No point in too much power. Lots of absorbent materials in the room, so additional acoustic materials would probably be a waste of money. I could spend more than the $20 I spent for the speakers and $50 for the sub, but any move would be lateral: different, but not necessarily better. $50 for the AVR, $140 for the DAC, about the same for the headphone amp that doubles as a line level pre/DAC link to the AVR. Think I'll stand pat.

 

[Wes]

I'd love to know where you could pick up a new pair of 8c's for $8k. List is $12.5k now. Maybe could find a deal on the studio version but I can tell you first hand no dealer in the US i selling for $8k for the non-studio version

I've seen them used

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

JBL floorstanders are well designed and reasonably priced. Trickle down from sister company Revel. JBL often go on sale. Infinity 263 3 way center is least expensive 3 way center I could find. Often on sale. All of these companies use same fundamental design and philosophy. All owned under Samsung umbrella. If you have the money then choose Revel. JBL and Revel are offering 2.5 way for efficiency. I prefer 3 way. I use JBL 3 way with 8 inch woofers. Blends with Infinity center. Infinity does not offer 8 inch woofer floorstanders.

 

[Yasuo]

I guess it depends on how much you earn. But if you asking what's the best price/performance ratio I'd like to find out as well.

 

[MZKM]

By ears are garbage, give me like $300/pair speakers and a good sub and I’m ok.

 

[Helicopter]

I guess it depends on how much you earn. But if you asking what's the best price/performance ratio I'd like to find out as well.

According to the law of diminishing returns, the best ratio is going to be at the bottom of the price scale. $9 Sony headphones, or whatever the speaker equivalent is... and I would say the theory should hold up alright, even it it oversimplifies a few specific examples, e.g. not accounting for overpriced junk.