Vinyl down . . . Streaming up

[Analog Scott]

Only because that audiophool arm of high end marketing has a large portion of the masses convinced that DSD sounds better than PCM

yeah, I'm sure the capacity for multichannel has nothing to do with it. wow

 

[Analog Scott]

And a good thing that resurgence was for a dying high end audio industry. Look at the first 40 pages or so of each months Stereophile whose content is most built on editorials by Mikey Fremer and Art Dudley, all proclaiming that the pinnacle of today's music playback gear is via the LP. Then as you peruse the rest of the mag that editorial position will combine to at least 50% of the total content. It was this convincing of the audiophile market that brought in the money that I believe has saved Stereophile, TAS and a whole surrounding industry of manufacturers from the bankruptcy court. It has completely boiled down to the hippster market section that you see it everywhere. Just today I saw a new commercial on TV for something, showing a mom enjoying playing a LP on a little $59 record player, a real push at how KOOL it is to play vinyl.. it's everywhere now.................
In the big picture I guess it's a good thing that so many people are making a living producing and selling products to this market.
BUT, it's all based on a snake-oil lie. Well mastered Redbook on a $200 CD player can supply better sound than the most expensive analog rig ever made. I don't mean to insult any of the analog members here, it does have it's endearing qualities like the whole cleaning, etc ritual. Also it does have a sound all it's own, not more accurate but pleasing to some. But I can do without the Rice Krispies thank you.
I just hate to see a whole generation of mis-guided people growing up to believe that dragging a rock thru a ditch will provide them with the SOTA in sound reproduction.

Oh yeah, the eminent demise of high end audio. reminds me of the eminent demise of classical music. It seems high end audio has been on it's death bed since I first got into audio 34 years ago. Pretty much the same for classical music too.

Funny thing. I have acumulated a pretty substantial collection of well mastered CDs and yet the vinyl keeps sounding better to me in most head to head comparisons. It's not snake oil and it's not a lie. It's simply a preference. By the way it is the 21st century. If you are dealing with rice crispy sound there is this thing called a de-clicker. An amazing invention. Oh those poor misguided folks. How dare they enjoy vinyl. the horror, the horror

 

[Thomas savage]

Have we got some numbers to back up the notion SACD is on the rise sale wise?

Everyone I know has ditched their surround sound in favour of sound bars , music wise they are all streaming into sonos etc with the odd person having a TT as well.

The TT seems to become aspirational again lol

 

[Analog Scott]

How timely, actually, I have already asked him myself. Not as specifically as you put it though. Should have though.

I guess you didn't want to take the bet. Good call. Unfortunately we will not be able to ask the cutting engineer, Doug Sax. He is no longer with us.

 

[Analog Scott]

Have we got some numbers to back up the notion SACD is on the rise sale wise?

Everyone I know has ditched their surround sound in favour of sound bars , music wise they are all streaming into sonos etc with the odd person having a TT as well.

The TT seems to become aspirational again lol

the only evidence I see is the substantial increase in available titles and really, that is what metters most.

 

[Blumlein 88]

And a good thing that resurgence was for a dying high end audio industry. Look at the first 40 pages or so of each months Stereophile whose content is most built on editorials by Mikey Fremer and Art Dudley, all proclaiming that the pinnacle of today's music playback gear is via the LP. Then as you peruse the rest of the mag that editorial position will combine to at least 50% of the total content. It was this convincing of the audiophile market that brought in the money that I believe has saved Stereophile, TAS and a whole surrounding industry of manufacturers from the bankruptcy court. It has completely boiled down to the hippster market section that you see it everywhere. Just today I saw a new commercial on TV for something, showing a mom enjoying playing a LP on a little $59 record player, a real push at how KOOL it is to play vinyl.. it's everywhere now.................
In the big picture I guess it's a good thing that so many people are making a living producing and selling products to this market.
BUT, it's all based on a snake-oil lie. Well mastered Redbook on a $200 CD player can supply better sound than the most expensive analog rig ever made. I don't mean to insult any of the analog members here, it does have it's endearing qualities like the whole cleaning, etc ritual. Also it does have a sound all it's own, not more accurate but pleasing to some. But I can do without the Rice Krispies thank you.
I just hate to see a whole generation of mis-guided people growing up to believe that dragging a rock thru a ditch will provide them with the SOTA in sound reproduction.

I think you largely have it right.

Back in the day, vinyl was the inexpensive version of music distribution to the masses. Real 'philes or hifi enthusiasts knew the reel to reel was the reference. Vinyl was about the equivalent to MP3 streaming today. Cheap, convenient and could sound alright. A REFERENCE....................get outta here..........don't be ridiculous.

S'phile and TAS always kept the tube and vinyl flame a flickering. Now yes, it is like half the magazine for S'phile. Even if LP is in a resurgence that is strange considering the relative disparity in total sells not to mention total fidelity. LP as a reference, don't be ridiculous.

 

[Analog Scott]

I think you largely have it right.

Back in the day, vinyl was the inexpensive version of music distribution to the masses. Real 'philes or hifi enthusiasts knew the reel to reel was the reference. Vinyl was about the equivalent to MP3 streaming today. Cheap, convenient and could sound alright. A REFERENCE....................get outta here..........don't be ridiculous.

S'phile and TAS always kept the tube and vinyl flame a flickering. Now yes, it is like half the magazine for S'phile. Even if LP is in a resurgence that is strange considering the relative disparity in total sells not to mention total fidelity. LP as a reference, don't be ridiculous.

References? It's music. You are supposed to listen to it and enjoy it. Well, it is an option. Do what you want.

 

[Thomas savage]

the only evidence I see is the substantial increase in available titles and really, that is what metters most.

Intresting, from my ‘ buying experience ‘ SACD is less visible than ever before. Those I knew with SACD players.., well no longer have them.

Maybe SACD player sales would be a valid barometer ? How many of those are multichannel?

If you want multichannel Audio then going SACD seems backwards to me as your limiting yourself, a deal of the content Iv come across has been bundled with the CD as PCM DVD.

Not that going backwards has stopped some folks ( including me, with my SACD player and all) .

I do look for SACD’s of my favourite music but they are never (rare, like penguin shit in the desert) available.

 

[Wombat]

Not relative to LP. Did some searching and found some data: https://www.riaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/RIAA-Mid-Year-2017-News-and-Notes2.pdf

View attachment 9910

First column is 2016, the second, 2017. That is the category for:

View attachment 9911

300 K unit versus 7.2 million for LP is small putting aside the fact that they are also counting LP singles and such in that bucket.

My sense is that DSD downloads are eating into SACD sales.

Note: The figures are from mid-year statistics.

The 300K figure includes Compact cassettes, CD singles, vinyl singles, DVD-A, SACD, etc.

There is a collector and fan based market for singles, especially from upcoming artists. I am surprised at how small the SACD market apparently is and on a profit basis whether it is sustainable.

 

[Sal1950]

Oh yeah, the eminent demise of high end audio. reminds me of the eminent demise of classical music. It seems high end audio has been on it's death bed since I first got into audio 34 years ago. Pretty much the same for classical music too.

I said the high end was dying, not dead. How low does any particular segment of the markets numbers have to fall before you might relent to calling it dead?
Back when you say they were calling the high end dying (70-80s) the market was at a all time high point with how many mainstream and underground journals out there? And then there were 2.

As to Classical music the numbers continue to drop like a stone, but as long as it sells 10 albums in the US I'm sure you'll still be proclaiming it "alive and well" LOL

 

[Wombat]

Only because that audiophool arm of high end marketing has a large portion of the masses convinced that DSD sounds better than PCM

I am yet to be convinced that hi-res is inherently better than CD with respect to audibility. Mixing/mastering aimed at a more discerning market may be all there is to it - and some hi-res releases are stated to be inferior to the CD release.

 

[Sal1950]

Funny thing. I have acumulated a pretty substantial collection of well mastered CDs and yet the vinyl keeps sounding better to me in most head to head comparisons. It's not snake oil and it's not a lie. It's simply a preference. By the way it is the 21st century. I

Possibly your love affair with the sound of early 20th century vinyl technology may be related to a failure of your system to deliver SOTA resolution?
Or maybe a visit to your audiologist is in order?

 

[Sal1950]

I am yet to be convinced that hi-res is inherently better than CD with respect to audibility. Mixing/mastering aimed at a more discerning market may be all there is to it - and some hi-res releases are stated to be inferior to the CD release.

I agree completely, I'm not sure that well mastered Redbook isn't capable of delivering everything we're able to hear.

 

[Analog Scott]

Possibly your love affair with the sound of early 20th century vinyl technology may be related to a failure of your system to deliver SOTA resolution?
Or maybe a visit to your audiologist is in order?

Or maybe I just have impeccable taste. Jeez why do you have to be a dick about it. I like what I like. Is my preference a threat to your sense of world order or something? My audio system is fine, my hearing is fine. Deal with it.

 

[Analog Scott]

I agree completely, I'm not sure that well mastered Redbook isn't capable of delivering everything we're able to hear.

Seriously?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Seriously?

Can you hear anything that Redbook misses? If so what is it?

 

[Analog Scott]

Can you hear anything that Redbook misses? If so what is it?

Oh c'mon. Redbook is limited to stereo. Stereo is inherently limited in it's ability to convey a 3 dimensional sound space. So redbook is also limited.

 

[Sal1950]

Or maybe I just have impeccable taste.

Get over yourself.

 

[Analog Scott]

Get over yourself.

Oh, you didn't get the joke. Want me to explain it to you? I will use small words to make it easier

 

[Wombat]

Seriously?

I am for one.

I still have my vinyl. Only play it if I don't have a CD version.