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Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review

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Fillius

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You got me excited for a minute so I had to check to see of Denon had finally added a USB-B input. Unfortunately, I can't see one on the X4700 or X6700. As has been the case for a long time the only USB input is USB-A which allows for playing files from a USB memory device (page 103 of the manual). In order to use these Denons as USB DACs (connected to a streamer or computer) you would need a USB-B or USB Micro-B input which is not present. The only digital inputs other than HDMI are network (DLNA), optical and coax.

BTW, the only non-exotic AVRs that come to mind with a USB-B input are the Emotivas (XMC-1, XMC-2 and RMC-1). There might be others but for some strange reason the non-boutique Japanese brands never seem to have them. The Emotiva AVRs can work like USB DACs.
I didn't realise that, I had read somewhere that the Denon Roon Tested was via Airplay or USB, but it may not have meant both on their AVR's.

https://roonlabs.com/partners/denon

That link says "via network or USB".

But it's clarified in this one:
https://denon-uk.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7213/~/denon-+-roon

Well I guess I'm back to using HDMI for Roon (without DSD support) until I buy a DAC/endpoint :confused:.
 

Fillius

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If I'm not mistaken, the USB input is for a phone or external drive/memory stick with files on it, not for USB audio playback via computer. Also, "roon tested" is simply airplay, not the full roon RAAT protocol. I does have spotify connect, though. And heos!
It does have Heos, but that doesn't yet support Qobuz, which is the service I'm using at the moment (plus local library). And Airplay doesn't support Hi-Res...

At least I know now, otherwise I would have been disappointed when the X6700 arrived and I couldn't get it to work.

It suddenly makes a lot more sense to me why the USB port is on the front behind the flap now instead of on the back.
 

A-Shah

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I bet the 4500 and the 3600 are very close to the same. I could be wrong...these assumptions are dangerous.

Nice score on the 4500! It's a great AVR. I think it's worth it over the 3600. Right now there is little difference in price between the two when buying refurb.

If you are going to use external amps for your front L and R, just set the AVR amp assign to 11.1 channel mode, and turn ECO mode to ON if just doing 2-channel.


Nope ! they sent me a "brand new unit "
! I double checked ! I have a very high end 2 channel listening system with PS audioDirectstream DAC the only thing this AVR shares with the system is the OPPO 205 & and a pair REl S/812 recently acquired via the LFE. REL's support 2 systems separately
thank you ! for this feed back and input I guess I ll just keep the unit since it only being used for HT as a pre-pro and an external amp for the front's & center channel in a 5.1 dolby atmos system .
 

John Galt

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I have added limited Toslink/Coax to my testing in addition to HDMI. Beyond that, I simply cannot cover the full matrix of testing the amp with multiple inputs, and other tests. It will take all day and make the reviews hugely long. If we think there is a common problem, then I can add specific tests for it.

Is testing AirPlay for music even an option?
 

Chromatischism

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Sucks that Chromecast doesn't support gapless playback. Maybe consider a $35 Raspberry Pi 4 instead.
I have been looking for a solution to that. There is quite a gap when changing tracks. Also, Chromecast starts a newly selected song about 1-2 seconds in so you always miss the beginning.

I guess one solution could be uploading my music files to the service (for those services that allow it). I have a Google Play Music and YouTube Music subscription which can do so. It's not ideal - I don't want any compression done on already compressed files. And YTM has a bug where the output volume is much lower than GPM. I've reported it and I hope they fix it.
 

Aerith Gainsborough

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The idea of reference level comes from Dolby and reference level of mixing for movies. If you listen at 0 dB, it is supposed to be as loud as they intended. There is no such reference for music so that concept is not there in 2-channel world anyway.

It is true that the AVR may have optimized its gain for that output level. Then again, maybe not.
Do you per chance mean 0dB on the volume display?
Can that realistically be run on more modern units w/o excessive noise being audible? On my Yammy, the furthest I can go is -20dB.
Beyond that noise gets not just audible but rather loud.
 

Chromatischism

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Do you per chance mean 0dB on the volume display?
Can that realistically be run on more modern units w/o excessive noise being audible? On my Yammy, the furthest I can go is -20dB.
Beyond that noise gets not just audible but rather loud.
Yes, -0 MV from reference. Do you hear that with any speaker? A good AVR should get to 0 without much fuss.
 

Sancus

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Do you per chance mean 0dB on the volume display?
Can that realistically be run on more modern units w/o excessive noise being audible? On my Yammy, the furthest I can go is -20dB.
Beyond that noise gets not just audible but rather loud.

There is no audible noise difference between -20dB and 0dB on my Denon X4500H.
 

Gedeon

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Since my AVR (a Marantz 6012) is DLNA ready and it comes with HEOS I've never used HDMI/Tos-link for music, neither analog inputs.

And HDMI is feed in 99,9% by encoded formats (DTS, Dolby,...)

So there is a doubt about how these machines measure under those circumstances. And with room correction always enabled.
 

kokishin

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For those few who are inquiring about 0dB on their AVR. Besides watching movies, Mrs K and I listen to a lot of music especially 5.1 surround sound and a few Dolby Atmos music titles that have become available such as The Beatles' Abbey Road BD or R.E.M.'s Automatic For The People BD. As Amir pointed out, there is no specified reference level for music, only movies.

I never need to turn my AVR MV to 0dB because it's too loud for our ears. However, I have tried it and I don't hear any distortion. The key is to calibrate such that 0dB MV is equivalent to 75dB SPL at the MLP which is the reference for HT movies.

With much appreciated guidance from @Srrndhound (Roger Dressler on avsforum where I originally posted this). I calibrated my HT setup as follows:

Using this SPL meter I purchased on amazon (no longer available but you can find similar models): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZQDEV8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
1) Set the SPL meter to C weighting and SLOW response.
2) Hold the SPL meter pointing at the ceiling at ear level at the Main Listening Position.
3) Set the Master Volume on the AVR to 0dB.
4) Using the AVR's internal test tones, adjust the SPL of each speaker to 75dB.
5) After setting the SPL for all 9 speakers (in my case) and Sub to 75dB, i verified the SPL's with the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark rev2 disc. Of course, it does not provide test tones for the Atmos speakers.
6) As a second check, I used the 2015 Dolby Demo disc and measured that it's test tones were recorded 10dB higher (per Roger) than the Spears & Munsil disc for all speakers.
 
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amirm

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Is testing AirPlay for music even an option?
Sure. Indeed I have tested some AVRs using Roon to stream to them via AirPlay. Performance has been the same as HDMI so far.
 

Chromatischism

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Reference level or -0 MV is 75 dB but with 95 dB "peaks". And these "peaks" in my experience happen all the time during action movies. So it's really closer to the 95 dB mark which is way too loud :oops:

By the way, Audyssey does all of that for you.
 

kokishin

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Reference level or -0 MV is 75 dB but with 95 dB "peaks". And these "peaks" in my experience happen all the time during action movies. So it's really closer to the 95 dB mark which is way too loud :oops:

By the way, Audyssey does all of that for you.
Audyssey is supposed to but I still had to tweak my system to properly calibrate it. Audyssey also said I had a couple of speakers with reversed polarity which was false. No harm in confirming SPL test tones with a meter.

And again, I never turn my MV to 0dB because it's too loud.
 
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amirm

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Audyssey also said I had a couple of speakers with reversed polarity which was false.
THis is one of the most annoying things Audyssey does. We used to have a system at work and it would randomly say this.
 

LTig

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I have added limited Toslink/Coax to my testing in addition to HDMI. Beyond that, I simply cannot cover the full matrix of testing the amp with multiple inputs, and other tests. It will take all day and make the reviews hugely long. If we think there is a common problem, then I can add specific tests for it.
If testing needs to be limited then let me suggest to at least run the multitone tests and maybe jitter. The former almost tells it all, except jitter.
 
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amirm

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If testing needs to be limited then let me suggest to at least run the multitone tests and maybe jitter.
Jitter I have been running. Multitone most of the time is not possible because it is encoded at 192 kHz. Most Toslink/Coax interfaces stop at 96 kHz so the test won't run.
 

Newman

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I'm still so miserable with disappointment about Amir's pre-pro tests, that I can barely lift my sad depressed eyes to read this one. OK I made myself do it. Aargh! Whyyyyy?

Desperate for something to take HDMI inputs and measure well, that has current version Dirac included. Even 7 channels would suffice. Ideas??
 

Chromatischism

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I'm still so miserable with disappointment about Amir's pre-pro tests, that I can barely lift my sad depressed eyes to read this one. OK I made myself do it. Aargh! Whyyyyy?

Desperate for something to take HDMI inputs and measure well, that has current version Dirac included. Even 7 channels would suffice. Ideas??
An HDMI switcher into a MiniDSP? Your preamp/amp situation gets more complicated though.
 
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