Genelec 8341A SAM™ Studio Monitor Review

[ShadowNeko]

@amirm I would love to see a review of the cheaper genelecs like the 8330a.

 

[AthanasiosL]

All measurements are reference to tweeter axis with the grill removed.

Negligible question but i have to ask it since i have 2 young children ... is there a grill in these speakers i don't know about? or just the text is the standard copy-paste introduction?
Also I would really love to see the review of 8351/8361...

 

[pierre]

Incredible. But if I were spending this kind of money, I'd go right for the 8351B. That SPL thing is kind of strange when Genelec says:

and it says the bass amplifier provides 250 W.

i have 3 of them in front of me. Even used in 2.0 mode at 2m i usually cannot put them full blast. That’s ok for fun for 2 minutes. They do distort at high volume (That is: me with earplugs).
in 2.1 (with a 7370 subwoofer, i cannot stay in the room more than 1 min at -3db). In 5.1 I never tried to go above -9db.
the room is 4mx5m. I agree they are nearfield and are not designed for a large room. If they are in front of you,
they have enough for most use. With a subwoofer, you can go party mode for hours. this subwoofer is incredible (it is expensive thus I expected as much).

 

[pierre]

The biggest difference between the here measured Harbeth and Genelec would be the tonality, which is much darker at Harbeth, here are the predicted listener responses of both:
View attachment 51986
(plots generated by @edechamps Loudspeaker Explorer)

Would be interesting to see which tonality is preferred depending on listening distance, room reverberation, recording and listeners previous habituation.

I guess 99% of genelec users will use the inbuilt room correction. This will have more impact on the sound. I am wondering how many Harbeth audiophiles use room correction.

 

[Spocko]

I guess 99% of genelec users will use the inbuilt room correction. This will have more impact on the sound. I am wondering how many Harbeth audiophiles use room correction.

I predict none. Harbeth fans sound like a group of unfussy audiophiles who just enjoy what they buy without diving into the morass of DSP room corrections and the like, yes I'm generalizing, but that's the vibe I get when talking to them, whether at shows or on forums.

 

[pozz]

The second-order harmonic distortion of compression drivers on wave guides or horns at high frequencies is almost exclusively due to thermodynamic effects in the air.

Do you mind showing a source for this?

 

[Hephaestus]

i have 3 of them in front of me. Even used in 2.0 mode at 2m i usually cannot put them full blast. That’s ok for fun for 2 minutes. They do distort at high volume (That is: me with earplugs).
in 2.1 (with a 7370 subwoofer, i cannot stay in the room more than 1 min at -3db). In 5.1 I never tried to go above -9db.
the room is 4mx5m. I agree they are nearfield and are not designed for a large room. If they are in front of you,
they have enough for most use. With a subwoofer, you can go party mode for hours. this subwoofer is incredible (it is expensive thus I expected as much).

I compared 8341A and 8351B side by side in nearfield setup at local dealer. I couldnt tell which one was playing. A bit further away 8351B could be pushed a couple of dbs more. I ended up getting the smaller ones as they will need sub anyways.

S360 plus two 7380 are ideal for high spl use

As mentioned many times already - these are nearfield monitors for small spaces...

 

[pierre]

I compared 8341A and 8351B side by side in nearfield setup at local dealer. I couldnt tell which one was playing. A bit further away 8351B could be pushed a couple of dbs more. I ended up getting the smaller ones as they will need sub anyways.

S360 plus two 7380 are ideal for high spl use

As mentioned many times already - these are nearfield monitors for small spaces...

I am trying the w371 + 8361 route for a larger room. I have very very high expectations. Let’s see how it goes.

i forgot to congrats amirm@ for all this speaker reviews. I have convinced many enginneers to trust science and take buying decisions on facts. I should get a discount at Adam and Genelec.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Do you mind showing a source for this?

I don't have an online source, but for example Eargles' Loudspeaker handbook has a section on it. He states: "The predominant form of distortion in a well-designed hom system is second harmonic distortion, which comes as a result of high pressures in the horn's throat."

I can add anecdotally that it is not a topic of any controversy, to my knoweldge.

 

[Sancus]

I compared 8341A and 8351B side by side in nearfield setup at local dealer. I couldnt tell which one was playing. A bit further away 8351B could be pushed a couple of dbs more. I ended up getting the smaller ones as they will need sub anyways.

Most likely the 8351B can play significantly louder in midrange and treble because it uses the larger midrange(5") and tweeter(1") that the 8361A uses(with the same amplifier power, even). In testing without a sub, you're always going to be limited by the woofer of course.

Not that it matters, if the 8341a gets loud enough for you then no reason to spend more...

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

@amirm I would love to see a review of the cheaper genelecs like the 8330a.

I plan to send an 8030C in a couple weeks. It's cheaper and should measure better than the 8330A, but has less DSP options.

 

[spacevector]

Hey I just want to pop in real quick and say congrats and thanks to the member who sent the speaker.

Awesome toy it looks like. How are you enjoying it so far señor?

 

[thewas]

I guess 99% of genelec users will use the inbuilt room correction. This will have more impact on the sound. I am wondering how many Harbeth audiophiles use room correction.

Genelecs GLM correctly mainly intervenes to correct room interaction up to mainly 1kHz, it won't make a Genelec having an almost 5dB decreasing on axis anechoic FR like on that Harbeth and that is a huge tonal difference between both.

 

[amirm]

Negligible question but i have to ask it since i have 2 young children ... is there a grill in these speakers i don't know about?

I don't think they have grills.

 

[Thomas_A]

The biggest difference between the here measured Harbeth and Genelec would be the tonality, which is much darker at Harbeth, here are the predicted listener responses of both:
View attachment 51986
(plots generated by @edechamps Loudspeaker Explorer)

Would be interesting to see which tonality is preferred depending on listening distance, room reverberation, recording and listeners previous habituation.

The 25 year old Harbeth 30 model is interesting but I think the more later 30.1 or 30.2 models would be a more relevant comparison.

 

[tuga]

Genelecs GLM correctly mainly intervenes to correct room interaction up to mainly 1kHz, it won't make a Genelec having an almost 5dB decreasing on axis anechoic FR like on that Harbeth and that is a huge tonal difference between both.

There's a slight resemblance between Harbeth M30 predicted listening spot response and the optimum B&K curve:

P.S. the Genelec is actually quite similar though perhaps a bit gentler

 

[thewas]

That classic B&K curve drops around 5dB from 300Hz to 20 kHz while the Genelec drops around 4dB and the Harbeth approximately 10dB, so it could be said that the Genelec is closer there. But anyway we know from Toole that PIR don't mean as much as the direct sound which should be rather flat (which rather happens on the Genelec), the rest is function of the loudspeaker directivity, listening distance and room reverberation function.

 

[ctrl]

ctrl said: The second-order harmonic distortion of compression drivers on wave guides or horns at high frequencies is almost exclusively due to thermodynamic effects in the air.

Do you mind showing a source for this?

Sure, here are a few links to it.

The source for my statement is this paragraph from a JBL paper.

As discussed in JBL Technical Note Volume One,
Number Eight, second harmonic distortion in
horn/driver combinations is due to thermodynamic air
overload and, for a given level and driving frequency,
the distortion is inversely proportional to the design
cutoff frequency of the horn.

Source: https://adn.harmanpro.com/site_elements/executables/19580_1571428015/tn_v1n21_original.pdf

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?4410-JBL-Technical-Notes-Volume-1-Number-8
https://www.fidelity-online.de/hoerner-und-ihre-treiber-teil-2/

 

[briskly]

Do you mind showing a source for this?

From an earlier discussion:

The origin stems from something simple: the speed of sound is dependent on the pressure of the medium. If the pressure variation is not taken to be infinitesimal, the compression wave moves faster than the rarefaction. This distorts the traveling wave and causes pressure deltas to pile up onto a front, which is known as wave steepening. See here for a brief math-light description, here and here for derivations. The process of wave steepening and shock front formation should be minimized once the wavefront leaves the mouth and undergoes significant expansion . . . The distortion effect would be greatest in the phase plug and near the horn throat, where the SPL is highest.

. . .Voishvillo, before he started designing JBL's drivers, gives an analysis of a midrange compression horn, though this other paper behind the AES wall addresses propagation more directly. You can follow through the references of the Voishvillo paper for other works.
2nd edit: The thermodynamic effect involved is not the heating of the sound radiating element and associated "compression", but the increase of entropy and [thermal] dissipation at the propagating shock fronts.

Other notes:
-The increased number of fronts at an elevated SPL favors distortions of the traveling high-frequency spectra. This works out to roughly a 6dB rising HD slope.
-Acoustical nonlinearity is perfectly capable of modulating products downward in frequency. (In)Audibility aside, "harmonic distortion" will generally do this.

 

[soundwave76]

I guess 99% of genelec users will use the inbuilt room correction. This will have more impact on the sound. I am wondering how many Harbeth audiophiles use room correction.

Exactly. I will NEVER go back to speaker setups without room correction.