Neutral bookshelf speakers @ $2000?

[daftcombo]

Do you mean he should upgrade his cat to a dog?

 

[dkinric]

Do you mean he should upgrade his cat to a dog?

<Some lame dad joke about a woofer>

 

[watchnerd]

Unfortunately for others: These kinds of offer are strictly limited to France/EU.

PS: Speaking of which, my kitten just destroyed one of the medium/bass driver of my 906s...

Oh, I never thought about flax cones being scratchable.....

Was the kitten attacking it because it moved?

 

[MZKM]

NHT C3 is likely the champ for best accurate sound @ $1000 (can be had for <$700 when on sale). They have average sensitivty and a bit bass-shy, but should do well in a small room without a sub.

The Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2EX seems to be the new champ for $1000-$1500. Very low sensitivity, so definitely not for movies in a big room, but music in a small room is no problem.

The Revel M126Be for $2000 doesn’t seem to be that great over the Sierra, it has excess energy at 5kHz which may be fatiguing for some.

 

[badboygolf16v]

I've always liked the look of the KEF Reference 201/2 based on their Stereophile measurements. Never heard them but the numbers don't lie. Might be in budget second hand?

 

[watchnerd]

NHT C3 is the champ for best accurate sound $1000.

Is it, really?

How was this determined?

Nothing against NHT (I've owned in my past and liked them), but this statement really needs some data behind it to fit ASR.

Otherwise, it reads just like stuff on a dozen other audio blogs where it's just people giving opinions without evidence.

 

[MZKM]

Is it, really?

How was this determined?

Nothing against NHT (I've owned in my past and liked them), but this statement really needs some data behind it to fit ASR.

Otherwise, it reads just like stuff on a dozen other audio blogs where it's just people giving opinions without evidence.

Measurements of older gen model (300Hz+):

Notice the slight dip at 2500Hz is balanced by the slight emphasis off-axis.


Measurements of C3 (~300Hz+):

 

[Ron Texas]

Just got a pair for 410€, thanks to @VintageFlanker notification.

They are sometimes $900 per pair at accessories4less. Sales tax might add some more.

 

[daftcombo]

They are sometimes $900 per pair at accessories4less. Sales tax might add some more.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hread-on-audio-product-sales.3118/post-236560
A bit more now, but you can try & ask them for a good price perhaps.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Was the kitten attacking it because it moved?

I wish it was the reason. He simply quickly understood that he could get whatever he wants (in that case: chicken meat), by threating to attack my beloved speakers. He started with my Silver 10s two months ago. The grilles are almost useless since he removes them easily...

The kitten is more likely a teenager now: 7 months old, weights 7Kg. A Maine Coon called Phantom:

See these paws? Deadly weapons...

Oh, I never thought about flax cones being scratchable.....

Not the flax. He pierced the surround in three locations (with only one scratch - nice strike). Still working for now but I won't put the bass hard.

 

[aarons915]

NHT C3 is likely the champ for best accurate sound @ $1000 (can be bad for <$700 when on sale). They have average sensitivty and a bit bass-shy, but should do well in a small room without a sub.

The Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2EX seems to be the new champ for $1000-$1500. Very low sensitivity, so definitely not for movies in a big room, but music in a small room is no problem.

The Revel M126Be for $2000 doesn’t seem to be that great over the Sierra, it has excess energy at 5kHz which may be fatiguing for some.

There's 1 poster over on AVS that has the Sierra 2 EX and Burchardt S400 and said the S400 is the best bookshelf speaker he's ever heard under 2k. Also, the M126be are actually 4k a pair and I'd be shocked if they were beaten by the 2 EX, the 5k bump is only in the on-axis plot, it goes away in the listening window which means it's most likely acoustic interference and not audible. At or under 2k, I'd be looking at the R3, LS50, M105/M106 or the Burchardt S400. A much cheaper option that comes very close is the Polk LSIM 703 at current closeout prices.

 

[dkinric]

The cost of drivers/materials/build quality is probably about the same as the KEF, Revel or Burchardt. Ascend has lower overhead, less markup and takes less profit. One thing we've learned at ASR is price is not necessarily indicative of better quality. I have provided good measurements and my subjective impressions.
They are a strong contender for best speaker in that group of great speakers.

That cat looks like it's going to kick my ass

 

[JimB]

I'm happy enough with the Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2-EX:
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neutral-bookshelf-speakers-2000.9546/
Can be as low as $1,500 now. They sell direct with a 30 day in-home trial. Please see the site for details and their forum for discussions.
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?2-Loudspeakers-Subwoofers-Accessories-Electronics

 

[Ron Texas]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hread-on-audio-product-sales.3118/post-236560
A bit more now, but you can try & ask them for a good price perhaps.

It varies with the finish.

I'm happy enough with the Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2-EX:
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neutral-bookshelf-speakers-2000.9546/
Can be as low as $1,500 now. They sell direct with a 30 day in-home trial. Please see the site for details and their forum for discussions.
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?2-Loudspeakers-Subwoofers-Accessories-Electronics

Everything might go on sale next month for Black Friday. I really dig the bamboo cabinet. That's a sustainable wood and it's tough as nails.

 

[watchnerd]

Measurements of older gen model (300Hz+):

View attachment 36858
View attachment 36859
Notice the slight dip at 2500Hz is balanced by the slight emphasis off-axis.


Measurements of C3 (~300Hz+):
View attachment 36860
View attachment 36861View attachment 36858View attachment 36859View attachment 36860View attachment 36861

Those are good mesurements.

But does that really earn them the title of "best accurate sound $1000"?

There are several other speakers that measure quite well at that price.

Example, LSR 308, which is powered and <$1000/pair:

 

[ernestcarl]

I wish it was the reason. He simply quickly understood that he could get whatever he wants (in that case: chicken meat), by threating to attack my beloved speakers. He started with my Silver 10s two months ago. The grilles are almost useless since he removes them easily...

The kitten is more likely a teenager now: 7 months old, weights 7Kg. A Maine Coon called Phantom:

View attachment 36862
See these paws? Deadly weapons...


Not the flax. He pierced the surround in three locations (with only one scratch - nice strike). Still working for know but I won't put the bass hard.

Try lots and lots of blu tack to stick the grills firmly in place.

 

[aarons915]

The cost of drivers/materials/build quality is probably about the same as the KEF, Revel or Burchardt. Ascend has lower overhead, less markup and takes less profit. One thing we've learned at ASR is price is not necessarily indicative of better quality. I have provided good measurements and my subjective impressions.
They are a strong contender for best speaker in that group of great speakers.

That cat looks like it's going to kick my ass

Actually, I'd say the Sierra 2 EX has the most expensive drivers and the bamboo cabinets are really nice, the S400 uses relatively inexpensive SB acoustics drivers which makes them more impressive in my opinion. I'm just saying I wouldn't necessarily crown the EX the champ just yet, there are quite a few good speakers in the price range.

 

[napilopez]

I think it's also worth taking a step back keeping some perspective here too. Almost every speaker recommended here is a good-performing, close-to neutral speaker relative to the wider industry. They're largely at the point of diminishing returns for how much the basic measurements available online will tell us about their sound.

I mean, if you showed me a few plots of the Revel Ultima Salon2, I wouldn't be ready to immediately declare it one of the best performing speakers on the market, and one that consistently wins in Harman's blind tests. The graphs tell me it's a well-engineered speaker following modern design principles and likely in the upper echelon of performers, but the frequency response isn't a DAC-like straight line.

Maybe if we had access to every piece of data the engineers do and an algorithm to plug data into. But I don't think available on and off-axis data alone will make it clear which is best between, say, the R3, S400, and Sierra 2 EX. At that point, subjective impressions come into play.

 

[watchnerd]

I think it's also worth taking a step back keeping some perspective here too. Almost every speaker recommended here is a good-performing, close-to neutral speaker relative to the wider industry. They're largely at the point of diminishing returns for how much the basic measurements available online will tell us about their sound.

I mean, if you showed me a few plots of the Revel Ultima Salon2, I wouldn't be ready to immediately declare it one of the best performing speakers on the market, and one that consistently wins in Harman's blind tests. The graphs tell me it's a well-engineered speaker following modern design principles and likely in the upper echelon of performers, but the frequency response isn't a DAC-like straight line.

Maybe if we had access to every piece of data the engineers do and an algorithm to plug data into. But I don't think available on and off-axis data alone will make it clear which is best between, say, the R3, S400, and Sierra 2 EX. At that point, subjective impressions come into play.

Hence my earlier point about the flaw in these threads:

They're not really based on anything that is a true test.

Even a simple blind listening test shoot out would be nice.

Instead, people have their favorites, and provide testimonials, data, test, etc, in isolation to advocate.

I find the whole nature of threads like this, basically asking for purchase recommendations, to be a weird fit to ASR; they're really better off for fully subjective places like WBF.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think it's also worth taking a step back keeping some perspective here too. Almost every speaker recommended here is a good-performing, close-to neutral speaker relative to the wider industry. They're largely at the point of diminishing returns for how much the basic measurements available online will tell us about their sound.

I mean, if you showed me a few plots of the Revel Ultima Salon2, I wouldn't be ready to immediately declare it one of the best performing speakers on the market, and one that consistently wins in Harman's blind tests. The graphs tell me it's a well-engineered speaker following modern design principles and likely in the upper echelon of performers, but the frequency response isn't a DAC-like straight line.

Maybe if we had access to every piece of data the engineers do and an algorithm to plug data into. But I don't think available on and off-axis data alone will make it clear which is best between, say, the R3, S400, and Sierra 2 EX. At that point, subjective impressions come into play.

I mean, if you showed me a few plots of the Revel Ultima Salon2, I wouldn't be ready to immediately declare it one of the best performing speakers

Actually if you studied Toole's book, and learned a little about what they look for you'd have a good idea. Not as good as having the entire spin-o-rama data, but enough of the off axis info is presented by Stereophile and Soundstage.net to pick contenders vs pretenders.

If Harman's work is accurate, indeed you probably could pick which of your list of speakers would be best if you hear them blind. When you hear them sighted with other info given to you it pollutes the experience of hearing only their sound quality. Harman's spin-o-rama data is able to show which bookshelf speaker will perform better in blind comparisons at a 99% correlation rate. With full range speakers the rate is still into the 90+% range. What Stereophile and Soundstage show us isn't enough to be that accurate, but enough to be highly suggestive and to eliminate some choices.