Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[tomtoo]

And there have been times when questions, discrepancies and damaged speakers have been worked thru by Amir and manufacturers. So it isn't like he won't do that. There was the issue with bass being effected by his test site when it was colder than normal. Plus a few more. Amir has retested, investigated, and done right by those people to ascertain the truth.

Exactly! But this way is so so sad. I realy dont get it.

 

[Everett T]

And there have been times when questions, discrepancies and damaged speakers have been worked thru by Amir and manufacturers. So it isn't like he won't do that. There was the issue with bass being effected by his test site when it was colder than normal. Plus a few more. Amir has retested, investigated, and done right by those people to ascertain the truth.

Yeah, he has worked well with the majority of vendors he's interacted with, almost all. I remember the temperature issue and it goes to show how well the aforementioned holds true.

 

[Andy420]

Terrible company & speakers. Sue me Eric.

 

[tomtoo]

Yeah, he has worked well with the majority of vendors he's interacted with, almost all. I remember the temperature issue and it goes to show how well the aforementioned holds true.

Yep, get a kh 80 dsp. Measure it on a klippel and you know the room temperature it was measured at. Thats teamwork, thats science, thats presicion. Now someone not known, with no data comes in and says thats all wrong. Mhhhhh??

 

[BDWoody]

Yep, get a kh 80 dsp. Measure it on a klippel and you know the room temperature it was measured at. Thats teamwork, thats science, thats presicion. Now someone not known, with no data comes in and says thats all wrong. Mhhhhh??

I hope the special physics involves some actual math. We've got plenty of (academically credentialed) physicists around who can no doubt help the rest of us mere mortals understand, if needed.

 

[djodars]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

"Some of the next videos that we produce will have measurements that PROVE that this is real technology and that we are not selling hype and that we are marketing and we are exploiting technology."

4 years ago this guy was blabbering about coming up with measurements and he still hasn't produced any.

The entire video is a great watch.
Basically 11 minutes about trying to come up with words that will sell a speaker to the uneducated masses.

 

[antcollinet]

Garbage is now added to the list, thank you

Perhaps you can describe exactly what your relationship with Tekton is?

 

[Andy420]

They look garbage

 

[kemmler3D]

"I know a thing or two..." Good heavens. The reproduction of sound is 100% science. You are tasked with replicating the original source as close as possible. If you are changing that sound to effect some "creative" solution then you are not reproducing sound, you are coloring it. One example is when manufacturers make a very bright speaker: sounds crisp in the showroom, but becomes fatiguing pretty fast at home. That is an example of taking creative license.

There's nothing wrong with building a colored speaker because you think it sounds better than flat. And there is nothing wrong with buying one for the same reason, as long as you know what you are buying. I think most folks at ASR will agree as far as it goes.

Where the disagreements start is when someone starts holding opinions or subjective experiences out as fact. There is a world of difference (at ASR, and in the law) between "This speaker is the best" and "I think this speaker is the best".

Eric A. could easily just say "well, yes this 'measures poorly' but it's all intentional, based on my experience and artistic vision for the sound of a speaker, I think it sounds better this way" and we would simply have to accept that.

Instead he apparently wants to have it both ways. The measurements showing non-flat behavior are wrong, but also audiophiles supposedly don't want flat-measuring speakers.

 

[doug s.]

Perhaps you can describe exactly what your relationship with Tekton is?

seems to me he's just a fanboy who's butt-hurt that his fave speaker mfr is getting deserved grief for being a [insert fave expression to get you banned here].

doug s.

 

[Reverend Slim]

I'm not conflicted about anything. Amir didn't measure the speaker correctly - he came up with the wrong frequency response and impedance; he put the speaker in a false light. Again, we're producing a YouTube video that focuses on his mistakes/oversights.

Eric Alexander - audio designer

To be fair, Amir didn't "[come] up with the wrong frequency response and impedance". The Klippel measured what it measured, like it or not. This doesn't qualify as putting the speaker in a false light, as it is a plain and objective measurement using industry-established methodology. If you believe that he broke from that methodology in some meaningful way, say so, and be specific. If your issue is just that the Klippel measurements don't match whatever method you used to measure them, then that's about as "apples and oranges" as one can get.

 

[dpuopolo]

Art and creativity. Are you high? If I'm going to pay a ton of money for a set of speakers they had damn well sound good, and that has nothing to do with art and creativity. It has to do with how well they reproduce music. The fact that many recordings have been mastered on Auratune Super Sound Cubes doesn't mean you should make a big bucks speaker that sounds like them!

This is a review, listening tests, equalization and detailed measurements of the Tekton (Mini) M-Lore speaker. It is on kind loan from a member and costs $US 750 a pair.
View attachment 319407
As you see, this is a mini-tower speaker if there is such a thing. I had to put a 6 inch stand under it to get the tweeter to my ear height. There is nothing on the back side other than binding post. Not even a label.

Speaker was measured using Klippel Near-field Scanner. Tweeter center was used as acoustic reference.

Tekton M-Lore Speaker Measurements
Let's start with our usual anechoic measurements:
View attachment 319409
Boy, that is a pretty chewed up response. It is not terrible at high level but there are a ton of variations across the full audible band. We also have directivity error due to high crossover point and mistmatch of sizes of tweeter/woofer without a waveguide for the former. Sensitivity is a couple of dBs higher than a bookshelf speaker but also that much lower than a typical tower speaker.

We can see the source of variations in near-field driver responses:
View attachment 319410

Combine the rough on-axis response with poor directivity and the off-axis response becomes that much worse:
View attachment 319411

Resulting in rather poor predicted in-room response:
View attachment 319412

Directivity as noted is poor:
View attachment 319413
View attachment 319414

View attachment 319415

The larger speaker and drivers do provide an advantage in power handling relative to a bookshelf speaker:
View attachment 319416

Careful in analyzing the absolute distortion levels due to frequency response variations:
View attachment 319417

I ran a 10 dB set of sweeps to see if there is limiting and found one right at 105 dBSPL -- plenty good enough:
View attachment 319418

Speaker did sound fairly distorted though at 105 dB (although not breaking up).

Impedance is rather high which is good as far as stress on the amplifier:
View attachment 319419
We see a couple of clear resonances and more of them in the waterfall graph:
View attachment 319421

And the step response:
View attachment 319420

Tekton M-Lore Listening Tests
I had measured the speaker a week ago so they were not fresh in my mind. It took all of 3 seconds to realize something is wrong with the response with sound seemingly coming out of a box. Took out the EQ and went after the boost around 600 to 700 Hz:
View attachment 319422
That took out the boxiness but the sound was still not right. Filled in the notch in bass and boosted the gap in treble to balance that. Now the sound was more full but boomy so I put in my one correction for room mode I have around 105 Hz. With these in place, the sound was far more full and balanced. Male vocals sounded terrible without it.

Sub-bass response was decent. There was some distortion but it was trying to play it -- something most bookshelves can't do. I turned up the volume some and could not detect an immediate limit/break up.

All in all, the sound went from lousy to OK/good.

Conclusions
The objective failures of the Mini Lore are pretty obvious. While the speaker is a decade old (?), all of this was known then as well as now. The flaws directly translated to subjective listening tests presenting an unpleasant, boosted upper bass, lower treble. Equalization helped a lot but there are many more faults than my attempt there. The main positive here is the larger cabinet relative to a bookshelf speaker allowing higher dynamics and a bit more deep bass response. Otherwise, I can't see any redeeming characteristics. I don't know what reference Andrew Robinson had to say this about the speaker:
View attachment 319408

Competition has little to worry about.

I can't recommend the Tekton M-Lore speaker.

EDIT: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...lore-speaker-review.48732/page-9#post-1880220
A company representative has responded to the review in the thread and I am copying it here:

"What a disservice to the audiophile community. This reviewer does not possess all of the truth in the electro-acoustical universe concerning how loudspeakers should sound - nor do I. I've been blessed to have garnered 18 product of the year awards and it proves I know a thing or two about loudspeakers.

First, a loudspeaker can be designed from a viewpoint of rigid science [what this website looks to be all about] or it can be designed from a viewpoint of art and creativity. In my opinion, a great loudspeaker should have a beautiful balance of science and art. Think of what a mastering engineer could do to a song! A mastering engineer is both an artist and a scientist. Good loudspeaker design must be approached from an identical viewpoint; no different than a mastering engineer producing a track of music - I make the loudspeaker sound exactly how I want it to.

Second, to assume I cannot design and market a 'flat responding' loudspeaker is woefully shortsighted. If I wanted to produce a linear loudspeaker (as the reviewer has turned my design into) I would have done that; my simulator does this task in under 3 seconds. The facts are most audiophiles don't go for the frequency response and corrections the reviewer has suggested. The only linear loudspeaker models we offer are intended for professional studio engineering and they are tools for a toolbox. Changing crossover parts values to flatten the frequency response is a super simple task; my job is to get the speaker sounding right for an audiophile. The problem is most audiophiles don't go for 'scientific sound'; to my ears, it's analytical, sterile, forward in the midrange when turned up, and frankly not much excitement to be discerned. Shipping the Mini Lore with a MiniDSP and a preloaded file converting the Mini Lore into a scientific masterpiece is no more difficult than changing a few values on the crossover.

Anyone wanting an improved version of the Mini Lore pair as the scientific reviewer has suggested my model be changed into is free to call me and I will accommodate your request.

Tekton Design caters to the audiophile community and when two pairs of Mini Lore's were returned in 2023 we must be doing something right with the design.

Respectfully, Eric Alexander - audio designer and owner of Tekton Design, LLC"


Published Manufacturers Specifications:

• Perfect impulse time-alignment
• 8″ woofer
• 1″ silk soft dome tweeter
• 8 Ohm impedance
• Frequency Response 38Hz-20kHz
• 95dB 1W@1m
• 200 Watts power handling
• Height 34″ (86.36 cm) x Width 9.125″ (23.17 cm) x Depth 10″ (25.4 cm)
• Weight 35 lbs.
• Manufactured in the USA

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome. Click here if you have some audio gear you want me to test.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

 

[kemmler3D]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

"Some of the next videos that we produce will have measurements that PROVE that this is real technology and that we are not selling hype and that we are marketing and we are exploiting technology."

4 years ago this guy was blabbering about coming up with measurements and he still hasn't produced any.

The entire video is a great watch.
Basically 11 minutes about trying to come up with words that will sell a speaker to the uneducated masses.

I found the patent from that link. Seems to be two ideas rolled into one patent.

First, the idea of low moving mass diaphragms, specifically comparable to the weights of guitar strings and such. I may not be a patent lawyer but I'm pretty sure that concept was in currency before 2014. I think at a high level it's a fine idea, I never heard anyone argue for more moving mass for its own sake.

Second, the idea of using an array of drivers (tweeters?) which only play intermittently and 'switch' between each other rapidly. I am not sure if they are actually using this technology, and I am not sure if it would provide much benefit, but it sounds interesting? Anyone know if their speakers actually do that?

There is also some of the typical subjectivist talk in the patent, like:

Common subwoofers reproduce audible frequencies from 20 Hz-200 Hz. Most subwoofers on average have a moving mass of 100-200 grams. Nevertheless, subwoofers are typically called on to reproduce sounds from musical instruments with moving components much smaller in mass than this. The result is slow, very inaccurate, and inefficient sound reproduction.

Then, it leaves me wondering, after stuff like this:

First, through the use of material science, new and improved transducers (a woofer for example) are specifically designed to match or at least more-closely match the mass of the moving component (e.g. string, membrane, air mass, etc.) of the musical instrument producing the music or sound. Very few transducers that might qualify for this duty application even exist today, and none are currently used or adopted for use in speakers

Is the intention to sue anyone that builds a speaker with a low enough moving mass that Tekton considers it comparable to part of a musical instrument? Or is it only if they happen to make the mistake of comparing the diaphragm's weight to a guitar string's?

 

[thewas]

I remember back in the early ASR NFS days when there were found small deviations in the lower bass of the Neumann KH80 between Amirs and Neumanns measurements and Neumann immediately sent one example to Klippel Germany and soon the reason was found, namely the low temperature in Amirs garage. This approach not only did not harm Neumann but even was a great advertisement for the professionalism. On the other hand we see here the complete opposite, namely how even the owner of a company digs up his hole deeper and deeper every day something which makes me wonder how some people reached at all so far in first place...

 

[Somafunk]

This approach not only harmed Neumann but even was a great advertisement for the professionalism

You may want to change the phrasing of the first few words

 

[Axo1989]

I found the patent from that link. Seems to be two ideas rolled into one patent.

First, the idea of low moving mass diaphragms, specifically comparable to the weights of guitar strings and such. I may not be a patent lawyer but I'm pretty sure that concept was in currency before 2014. I think at a high level it's a fine idea, I never heard anyone argue for more moving mass for its own sake.

Second, the idea of using an array of drivers (tweeters?) which only play intermittently and 'switch' between each other rapidly. I am not sure if they are actually using this technology, and I am not sure if it would provide much benefit, but it sounds interesting? Anyone know if their speakers actually do that?

There is also some of the typical subjectivist talk in the patent, like:



Then, it leaves me wondering, after stuff like this:



Is the intention to sue anyone that builds a speaker with a low enough moving mass that Tekton considers it comparable to part of a musical instrument? Or is it only if they happen to make the mistake of comparing the diaphragm's weight to a guitar string's?

Makes sense, if you want a loudspeaker to sound exactly like a violin in a room then you should build it exactly like a violin, considering the instrument's radiation pattern, etc.

But this approach has limitations if you want to listen to much beyond chamber music. Maybe you sit in the kitchen?

Those of us who like electronic music are sorted. Audio gear is pretty much there already.

 

[thewas]

You may want to change the phrasing of the first few words

Thanks, corrected now.

 

[ahofer]

The review was done like all the reviews on this site, but reliying on a test method that does not tell the whole story on speaker.. The speakers were sent to Amir by a member. Who knows if he did not change some caps or resistor on the filters. Maybe it should not have been tested in the first place. Also as Eric said this speaker was not intended to represent a faultless flat curve in an anachoic space. One must be very carefull, this is not some cheap chinese import, it is an American product, reputation and jobs at stake here.

Can’t say I agree with most of this.

The suite of measurements Amir uses will tell you more about how a speaker sounds than any subjective review. It is based on seminal work in preferences. The shortcomings of auditioning in different rooms, time between samples, and sighted bias ensure that the measurements will be a more reliable reference than just listening.

The speaker is older and may be broken in some small way. Harbeth had a 14 year old model tested here that was not representative of its current offerings. The solution is not to threaten, but to send in a current working model.

We don’t care what Eric’s objective was other than to note it. What Amir is doing is measuring to his specifications, which are built on the Toole/Olive/Klippel model. That is the most scientifically supported preference model available.

There’s no cause, IMO, to be an apologist for Tekton’s behavior or their speaker.

Btw, how do you know the big infinitis would do poorly on a Klippel (below)? Do you have a basis to make that claim? I don’t think we know. The largest model I see tested is the R263.

Measurements for speaker Infinity R263

www.spinorama.org

 

[CleanSound]

Erici, Understand that Amir claims to an "electrical engineer by degree and hobby". He's an electrical engineer. Loudspeakers are electro-acoustic devices and the moment the 'electricity' passes the voice coil in a loudspeaker he's [Amir] working in the realm of acoustical physics, and entirely different branch of physics. Can you see where I'm going here...??

@Eric Alexander and can you please tell us what is your credentials? Do you have a degree or any formal training in physics? If so, can you please provide the details of your credentials?

You have had 6 months and many opportunities to show measurements that would shed good light on your product, here and on your own website or youtube channel. You have done none of this. These are the facts.

You forgot to write the word facts in all caps as in FACTS

Respectfully, it's not an "honest review". I've already said we're posting a YouTube video that will reflect Amir's mistakes.

We will be eagerly waiting and I am certain someone will post a rebuttal video to your already Peter Pan YouTube video. Of course, I am certain you won't be showing your measurements in that video, because there is a good chance you don't have any anechoic nor quasi anechoic measurements.

I clearly recall Amir instructing everyone to focus specifically on the topic of the review [Mini Lore]. It's clear there are a lot of rule-breakers with enough posts to know better...

And yet, you come here barking about a "litigation" and talking about your 19 awards? That is as related to the review here as other topics being discussed by other members.

We've been producing perfectly linear frequency response options for recording engineers as long as we've been producing speakers.

Perhaps, the public should help clear your name by buying a pair of these perfectly linear frequency response options and send it to an independent lab for anechoic measurements then make the data available to the entire public. Not only will that measurement be on-axis, it will be the full NFS measurement suite, so that we can compare it with other studio monitors of the likes of Neumann and Genelec to highlight the greatness of your studio monitors. Would you like the public to do that for you?

You stirred up quite a bit ruckus in this community, you got people thinking you were actually going to proceed with frivolous lawsuits, and the public was getting ready to donate to a legal defense fund for Erin. But now, it's clear that there will absolutely not be any lawsuits on your behalf against either Erin nor Amir, you were just barking.

@Eric Alexander , at this point without any prove of your claims, I advise you to retreat and publish a YouTube video apologizing for your bullying tactics and falsehood to the public at large. Ask your customers and potential-customer for forgiveness and ask other speaker designers who are more skilled than you (there are plenty out there) to take you under their wings, make capital investments on the proper tools and come back with better products. That is your only redemption at this point.

 

[Doodski]

@doug s.
Hi Doug S. Just making sure we are still golden and no issues.