Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

[paudio]

Trying to decide if I should pull the trigger on two used KH810s to pair with my O410s... Pretty spendy for that additional 12hz of extension

 

[holdingpants01]

Trying to decide if I should pull the trigger on two used KH810s to pair with my O410s... Pretty spendy for that additional 12hz of extension

do you have a measurements made at the listening point? If there are some nulls below 90Hz or so, with some EQ they should help and fill them up perfectly

 

[Ciobi69]

do you have a measurements made at the listening point? If there are some nulls below 90Hz or so, with some EQ they should help and fill them up perfectly

you do not fill the nulls with eq,you try to fix it by moving the speaker position / listening position, you could damage the speakers

 

[holdingpants01]

you do not fill the nulls with eq,you try to fix it by moving the speaker position / listening position, you could damage the speakers

Who said that? I said that subs with EQ (that controls the peaks, like it's always done) will, and if there are problems with nulls in their working range that could be a good reason to get them. Moving speakers is usually not practical or possible in a studio when everything is already built around them and they are placed where they are for a good reason

 

[boxerfan88]

a deep null is usually caused by cancellation.

the theory is: if boost @ cancellation frequency, the cancellation wave is also boosted; therefore we end up back in the same null situation

solution is to reposition speaker, or add more subs, or move listening position.

 

[holdingpants01]

a deep null is usually caused by cancellation.

the theory is: if boost @ cancellation frequency, the cancellation wave is also boosted; therefore we end up back in the same null situation

solution is to reposition speaker, or add more subs, or move listening position.

who says otherwise? Sometimes I feel there are bots replying here with some obvious stuff while not reading previous response

 

[teashea]

Trying to decide if I should pull the trigger on two used KH810s to pair with my O410s... Pretty spendy for that additional 12hz of extension

No. There is very little music with any content that low. More theoretical than actual.

 

[paudio]

No. There is very little music with any content that low. More theoretical than actual.

I'm thinking this is not the case with some of my favorite electronic music. I'll have to check spectral data to see

 

[paudio]

I'm thinking this is not the case with some of my favorite electronic music. I'll have to check spectral data to see

Looks like LORN for example regularly goes under 30hz and down into the teens. I have been spoiled with subbass extension in IEMs.

DROWN THE TRAITOR WITHIN, by LORN

8 track album

lorn.bandcamp.com

 

[Ciobi69]

I'm thinking this is not the case with some of my favorite electronic music. I'll have to check spectral data to see

Well yes it is true but the 420 should do good for it in my opinion,but subs could be useful anyway, you could buy 2 12 inch subs and you should be fine

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

a deep null is usually caused by cancellation.

the theory is: if boost @ cancellation frequency, the cancellation wave is also boosted; therefore we end up back in the same null situation

solution is to reposition speaker, or add more subs, or move listening position.

In the end the cancellation is a % of the total, if you increase the cancellation will not be equal to the boosted frequency
You have to boost the cancellation frequency, the only problem is
1- the fix will only work at listening position
2- the speaker gonna suffer, make sure the cancellation if not very low..

 

[Ciobi69]

For example a Friend of mine had a null at 60hz or something, he ''fixed it'' by doing EQ there, but he has 2 18 inch subs that can go at 130db at that frequency, Soo imagine making it to a 10 inch driver

 

[AnalogSteph]

Trying to decide if I should pull the trigger on two used KH810s to pair with my O410s... Pretty spendy for that additional 12hz of extension

If you really insist, you could flatten them out to ~25 Hz anechoic with a maximum of +12 dB of PEQ boost, assuming the resulting level handling is still adequate. Probably is if you're not trying to shake the foundations with movie SFX. In any case it's pretty much a luxury problem, very little music would have anything important going on down there.

 

[teashea]

I'm thinking this is not the case with some of my favorite electronic music. I'll have to check spectral data to see

That is correct. It is the exception.

 

[holdingpants01]

For example a Friend of mine had a null at 60hz or something, he ''fixed it'' by doing EQ there, but he has 2 18 inch subs that can go at 130db at that frequency, Soo imagine making it to a 10 inch driver

that's not how subs should be used, you put them in the corners or at least close to the wall which provide massive boost then EQ down to flat. I managed to get my bass response flat to 15Hz with two 10" subs and using only cuts, they were Genelec 7360A. Their SPL is rated at 109dB, but it was easily 15dB more because of the corner loading. Blue trace (orange is without bass traps so ignore it)

 

[Ciobi69]

that's not how subs should be used, you put them in the corners or at least close to the wall which provide massive boost then EQ down to flat. I managed to get my bass response flat to 15Hz with two 10" subs and using only cuts, they were Genelec 7360A. Their SPL is rated at 109dB, but it was easily 15dB more because of the corner loading.

your room its completely different by his room, he's not dumb he know where to postion the subwoofers, every room has his modal nulls

 

[holdingpants01]

your room its completely different by his room, he's not dumb he know where to postion the subwoofers, every room has his modal nulls

I wouldn't be so sure if he used boosts to fill modal nulls, anyway almost every room can be flattened in the low region with multiple subs, subtractive EQ and proper placement

 

[dominikz]

Trying to decide if I should pull the trigger on two used KH810s to pair with my O410s... Pretty spendy for that additional 12hz of extension

Have you perhaps considered something like e.g Monoprice Monolith, SVS or Rythmik subwoofers? They may not match as well visually as KH870 might, but are significantly cheaper and should provide the desired extension.

The amazing subwoofer sheet by @sweetchaos compiles measurement data from several sources and makes comparisons much simpler.

 

[paudio]

Have you perhaps considered something like e.g Monoprice Monolith, SVS or Rythmik subwoofers? They may not match as well visually as KH870 might, but are significantly cheaper and should provide the desired extension.

The amazing subwoofer sheet by @sweetchaos compiles measurement data from several sources and makes comparisons much simpler.

I have considered but usually it's harder to find something with XLR inputs and bass management at a cheaper price. 1000 USD each aren't bad for KH810s.

I am up in Canada so shipping is pretty rough from Rythmik

 

[dominikz]

I have considered but usually it's harder to find something with XLR inputs and bass management at a cheaper price.

Indeed. Monoprice Monolith series subs have a single XLR input, but no bass management at the XLR out (just pass through). Many other HT subs don't have balanced inputs at all...

What about adding the balanced version of MiniDSP Flex in the mix? That would widen your subwoofer options by giving you external bass management; in addition to room EQ (via manual PEQ or with the optional Dirac Live add-on), a well-measuring DAC and a remote control.