Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

[paudio]

Elysian stands look pretty good. Nephew can't push these boat anchors over though haha.

Trying to figure out how I would like wiring up these KH810s. Only have one still but theorizing for when the second one comes in. I could either SUM it from the first subwoofer which is already playing L/R <80hz or I could run them in a L/R 4-way configuration. Localization should be pretty difficult under the 80hz crossover frequency.

Had a read of this thread: Stereo bass using subwoofers. I figure the music I listen to most often is electronic and it has a lot of stereo bass well under 80hz. Pretty sure I feel this properly in headphones. Not sure how much that feeling will translate with the subs positioned under the mains. Guess I will try and find out.

 

[Pearljam5000]

When is there going to be a KH420 II?

 

[Curvature]

When is there going to be a KH420 II?

Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

Not Necessarily They could make it a shorter cycle with KH420 II If they already developed the new tech for KH120 II and KH150

www.audiosciencereview.com

Brain like swiss cheese.

 

[paudio]

When is there going to be a KH420 II?

Are you going to buy some KH420 used when the II comes out?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

Not Necessarily They could make it a shorter cycle with KH420 II If they already developed the new tech for KH120 II and KH150

www.audiosciencereview.com

Brain like swiss cheese.

Do you really think I remember each comment / thread/post I read ?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Are you going to buy some KH420 used when the II comes out?

Hopefully the KH420 II themselves

 

[MikeP]

Elysian stands look pretty good. Nephew can't push these boat anchors over though haha.

Trying to figure out how I would like wiring up these KH810s. Only have one still but theorizing for when the second one comes in. I could either SUM it from the first subwoofer which is already playing L/R <80hz or I could run them in a L/R 4-way configuration. Localization should be pretty difficult under the 80hz crossover frequency.

Had a read of this thread: Stereo bass using subwoofers. I figure the music I listen to most often is electronic and it has a lot of stereo bass well under 80hz. Pretty sure I feel this properly in headphones. Not sure how much that feeling will translate with the subs positioned under the mains. Guess I will try and find out.

The benefit of having 2 subs is to even out the bass response throughout the room and tame those pesky room modes. Having the subs near the mains usually does not achieve this, as peaks and nulls tend to be exacerbated - you can check this with REW.

I also use from time to time 2 subs (not from Neumann), but they are located in the front and back of the room. I feed them mono bass using a MiniDSP SHD unit with filters created with MSO. The key is to find the right position for the subs and the appropriate filters and delays so nulls get filled and peaks get reduced, giving an overall balanced bass response.

In my case, I take advantage of the excellent bass response of the KH420 and partially overlapp with the subs response, so effectively there are 4 bass sources spread across the room. The end result (summed response) sound good - confirmed by REW measurements.

I've analyzed some of my music and realized that content under 100Hz is basically mono. Therefore, there's no need for stereo reproduction (at least in my case).

Keeping the subs response below 80Hz (or lower) and using proper levels prevents localization issues.

I hope this helps to get you started.

 

[paudio]

The benefit of having 2 subs is to even out the bass response throughout the room and tame those pesky room modes. Having the subs near the mains usually does not achieve this, as peaks and nulls tend to be exacerbated - you can check this with REW.

I also use from time to time 2 subs (not from Neumann), but they are located in the front and back of the room. I feed them mono bass using a MiniDSP SHD unit with filters created with MSO. The key is to find the right position for the subs and the appropriate filters and delays so nulls get filled and peaks get reduced, giving an overall balanced bass response.

In my case, I take advantage of the excellent bass response of the KH420 and partially overlapp with the subs response, so effectively there are 4 bass sources spread across the room. The end result (summed response) sound good - confirmed by REW measurements.

I've analyzed some of my music and realized that content under 100Hz is basically mono. Therefore, there's no need for stereo reproduction (at least in my case).

Keeping the subs response below 80Hz (or lower) and using proper levels prevents localization issues.

I hope this helps to get you started.

Content in this electronic is definitely not mono. As personally experienced in headphones. They are going to be stand mounted in this tiny room for now anyway so moving the around the room isn't going to happen until I move into a place.

I've been looking at MiniDsp units. Very cool. Though I would try to exhaust the tuning available on the mains/subs first to see where I get.

 

[Germinal]

can you 'drive' these speaker directly from a Topping DAC or do you need a pre-amp? (sorry if this question has already been asked)

 

[Pio]

can you 'drive' these speaker directly from a Topping DAC or do you need a pre-amp? (sorry if this question has already been asked)

If it’s a DAC w/ a volume control, then yes. I would also suggest getting a topping DAC with XLR outputs. XLR out from DAC to the 420’s.

 

[Germinal]

If it’s a DAC w/ a volume control, then yes. I would also suggest getting a topping DAC with XLR outputs. XLR out from DAC to the 420’s.

Does anyone on the forum actually do this ?

It would seem you would get the most neutral - flat - sound possible this way ?

 

[Curvature]

Does anyone on the forum actually do this ?

It would seem you would get the most neutral - flat - sound possible this way ?

Please spend some time educating yourself about devices in question.

The answer to your first question is that connecting an outboard DAC to a speaker is absolutely standard. Topping may not be the best choice, from a usability perspective (not sound), depending on how your system is configured and what you would like it to do.

The answer to your second question is that the speaker's interaction with the room will produce uneven response in the lower frequencies.

And while you can talk about "flat" with electronic devices, this idea doesn't below to speakers because they radiate in all directions (although not with equal strength). Below is a polar plot showing how the KH420 radiates horizontally within increasing frequency. Each trace is one particular frequency.

 

[Pio]

Does anyone on the forum actually do this ?

It would seem you would get the most neutral - flat - sound possible this way ?

Not my standard set up, but I have used this DX7 Pro to drive the 420s and the JBL 708Ps. Works fine, just limited with inputs.

 

[paudio]

Well my second KH810 came in after some real hassles with the ebay seller trying to ship it via USPS while lying that it was 40lbs lighter than it actually is. He shipped it with the power plug in the back and it broke the power entry module off the plate amp frame. Ordered a replacement part off digikey. Part numbers are Digikey: 486-4099-ND Manufacturer: SCHURTER Inc. GSP1.8111.1.

I desoldered the old one and soldered the new one in place, rehooked up the plate amp and tested it. It only makes bad farting sounds. Immediately I feared the worse. I took apart my working KH810 and both voicecoils measured 2.7 ohms. I swapped my known good plate amp into the bad one and it still made bad sounds. Swapped it back the original and the original still sounds great.

Looked a while at the grill to figure out how it comes apart. Turns out it just pressure fits into the front of the enclosure. I used a thing pick I use for electronics repair to just gently pry up through the edge holes until the grill came out. I lightly pressed down on the cone and there is crazy friction. Either the thing is super toastered or something broke in shipping and is now wedged between the housing and the voicecoil. Can't see anything yet.

If anyone is interested the driver is a P835037! Looks like Peerless by Tymphany XXLS-P835037 10" Paper Cone Subwoofer 4 Ohm which is currently out of stock!

What a drag.

Edit: Looks like out of stock pretty much everywhere and has a 100 unit minimum.

 

[Curvature]

Well my second KH810 came in after some real hassles with the ebay seller trying to ship it via USPS while lying that it was 40lbs lighter than it actually is. He shipped it with the power plug in the back and it broke the power entry module off the plate amp frame. Ordered a replacement part off digikey. Part numbers are Digikey: 486-4099-ND Manufacturer: SCHURTER Inc. GSP1.8111.1.

I desoldered the old one and soldered the new one in place, rehooked up the plate amp and tested it. It only makes bad farting sounds. Immediately I feared the worse. I took apart my working KH810 and both voicecoils measured 2.7 ohms. I swapped my known good plate amp into the bad one and it still made bad sounds. Swapped it back the original and the original still sounds great.

Looked a while at the grill to figure out how it comes apart. Turns out it just pressure fits into the front of the enclosure. I used a thing pick I use for electronics repair to just gently pry up through the edge holes until the grill came out. I lightly pressed down on the cone and there is crazy friction. Either the thing is super toastered or something broke in shipping and is now wedged between the housing and the voicecoil. Can't see anything yet.

If anyone is interested the driver is a P835037! Looks like Peerless by Tymphany XXLS-P835037 10" Paper Cone Subwoofer 4 Ohm which is currently out of stock!

What a drag.

Edit: Looks like out of stock pretty much everywhere and has a 100 unit minimum.

Very sorry it turned out this way.

 

[RobL]

That’s unfortunate…I’ve never had much luck shipping heavy items except on a pallet.
have stock in Hong Kong, 2pc for US$66. No idea if they ship here though.

Edit: Removed the link….looks to be a shady site

 

[Vintage57]

Very sorry it turned out this way.

FWIW, i insist on original box and packaging or no deal. I bought 4 kh805 for my system. For room correction mostly.
What I want to share is that I bought from different people in Canada and the US.
They come from overseas very well packaged. I have original boxes for my complete system in a mini storage. For me it gives peace of mind when I’m selling or buying.
Just sharing

 

[paudio]

FWIW, i insist on original box and packaging or no deal. I bought 4 kh805 for my system. For room correction mostly.
What I want to share is that I bought from different people in Canada and the US.
They come from overseas very well packaged. I have original boxes for my complete system in a mini storage. For me it gives peace of mind when I’m selling or buying.
Just sharing

There was 15lbs of packaging around these. They would have been ok if they hadn't left the power plug in. Original boxes would be nice but I got these for like 3000 CAD for two.

Update on the speaker issue. I theorized:

1. The die cast aluminum basket likely didn't bend
2. The top cap, two donut magnets and end cap are all glued together and so if they shifted they would have fallen off
3. The basket is bolted to the top cap, magnets, etc and may be able to shift

I cut down an allen key and loosened the basket bolts and shifted the driver until until there was no rub even when pressing on only one side of the cone. After that I retightened the bolts. Kind of janky putting the allen key inside the basket ribs but I got them nice and tight. Remounted the woofer into the enclosure and she works just fine now it seems. I am guessing it got dropped during shipping and that basket shifted out of center.

Edit: added a shot with new power entry module soldered on.

 

[jhaider]

Well my second KH810 came in after some real hassles with the ebay seller trying to ship it via USPS while lying that it was 40lbs lighter than it actually is. He shipped it with the power plug in the back and it broke the power entry module off the plate amp frame. Ordered a replacement part off digikey. Part numbers are Digikey: 486-4099-ND Manufacturer: SCHURTER Inc. GSP1.8111.1.

I desoldered the old one and soldered the new one in place, rehooked up the plate amp and tested it. It only makes bad farting sounds. Immediately I feared the worse. I took apart my working KH810 and both voicecoils measured 2.7 ohms. I swapped my known good plate amp into the bad one and it still made bad sounds. Swapped it back the original and the original still sounds great.

Looked a while at the grill to figure out how it comes apart. Turns out it just pressure fits into the front of the enclosure. I used a thing pick I use for electronics repair to just gently pry up through the edge holes until the grill came out. I lightly pressed down on the cone and there is crazy friction. Either the thing is super toastered or something broke in shipping and is now wedged between the housing and the voicecoil. Can't see anything yet.

If anyone is interested the driver is a P835037! Looks like Peerless by Tymphany XXLS-P835037 10" Paper Cone Subwoofer 4 Ohm which is currently out of stock!

What a drag.

Edit: Looks like out of stock pretty much everywhere and has a 100 unit minimum.

See how the ScanSpeak Discovery sub models in the cabinet. It’s an exact fit replacement for XLS/XXLS.

 

[paudio]

See how the ScanSpeak Discovery sub models in the cabinet. It’s an exact fit replacement for XLS/XXLS.

Solen here in Canada suggested these as possible replacements:

Scan-Speak 26W/4558T00 = https://solen.ca/en/products/26w4558t00
Scan-Speak 26W/4558T06 = https://solen.ca/en/products/26w4558t06
Seas Extreme L26ROY04 = https://solen.ca/en/products/l26roy04

Neumann also got back to me very quickly with a $214 USD + shipping replacement price for the original driver which comes in reasonably cheaper than the scan-speak!

Looks like I've solved the coil rub though with the basket adjustment. Fingers crossed it never causes a problem again.