Geithain RL 901K vs Neumann KH420

[test1223]

Only drawback of the RL901K is their size and weight. Certainly not for a living room unless big room.

If you are okay with the optics, they definitely can be used in smaller rooms. They are midfield monitors with a recommended listing distance between 2 and 4m (6.5 - 13ft).

Agreed. From Ron's perspective, assuming he is based in North America, Geithain has no or little presence there. Their customer service is almost non existing based on my experience.

Is service such a big issue? From what I have heard the very reliable speakers like the ones from ME Geithain need a checkup maybe every 20 years or so and almost never get broken.

 

[Ron Texas]

Agreed. From Ron's perspective, assuming he is based in North America, Geithain has no or little presence there. Their customer service is almost non existing based on my experience.
If I were based in North America I would certainly not buy anything from Geithain.

Don't get me wrong though. I was way more impressed with the RL901K than any Neumann or Genelec I demoed.

Last time I checked Texas was in North America. Geithain is also considerably more expensive than the others mentioned here.

 

[Ron Texas]

More established company? You must be joking, do you know how long me geithain operates already and what kind of customers they have....?

I'm not joking, are you? Based on what I could find using a web search Neumann has a worldwide presence and Geithain appeared in Germany, the UK and one random dealer in Korea. I found a 2012 review from a UK outfit which said Geithan had little presence there at the time. Neumann started making microphones in 1928. Geithain was almost nothing until German reunification in 1990 when it became a private company. I'm willing to bet Neumann has more than 10 times the revenue as Geithain. In audio there are many great products which come from tiny companies. I used to have some Snell E III's. The owner dropped dead and so did the company and support. I'm willing to take a chance for $1,000 or $1,500, but not for north of 10 grand. I can buy Neumann from Guitar Center which has stores all over the US. Two within 15 minutes of my house or Sweetwater with their amazing customer service. Genelec is a different story with no dealers in Houston, the 4th largest US city, but I can get them from Sweetwater if I wanted.

 

[yanni]

Geithain doesn’t have a room at the Munich show, they have an open space exhibit. You can look and ask questions, but not listen.

Not true Claus Bücher had a room where you could listen to 3 Geithain models 901 and the new MO1 MK2 included.

I owned the MO2 in the past and heard the RL901 a couple of times. I also had the KH120 and Genelec 8030. I visited the Geithain factory some years ago when there were totally unknown in the HIFI scene yet.

My impressions so far. All those studio speakers sound incredible similar no matter what size you choose (within in the same range of the manufacturer) The tiny MO2 with a sub sounded very very similar the 901. For that reason Claus did the demo in Munich. People sometimes could not beliebe those small speakers very really plugged in.

Same is true for Genelec. There is not a huge difference between lets say 8020, 8030 and 8040. Or KH80 and KH 120 when using a sub.

I would choose the speaker based on what music you listen to

1) Classical music, Jazz, Acoustic music: "Real instruments" Geithain. The founder of Geithain is a big classical fan and exactly knows how example an organ should sound like
2) I have not directly compared Geithain and Neumann. But I think Geithain is a bit more fun to listen too. Neumann maybe a bit more analytical
3) Genelec (80XX series) Thats the best one if you want to listen to a broad range of music. I think Rock music sounds way better on those than on the other speakers. Also modern "dance" music sounds better on the Genelec. I have compared the Genelec and Neumann directly next to each other in my room.

Geithain is mainly selling directly to German radio/TV stations. This is the area where there came from originally.

None of those speakers are really "better" than the others. They are all totally fascinating (for different reasons). I never heard the coaxial Genelecs. Might be perfect for me. But way too expensive.

 

[LeonidK]

Yes, I was also pleasantly surprised to find it this year

 

[yanni]

Yes, I was also pleasantly surprised to find it this year

How did you like the new MO1 MK2 ? I was very surprised how good they sounded. As far as I understood you can test order Geithains at Claus's store (at least in Germany). Claus is the only one that actually sells Geithains in Germany as far as I know. Other than the manufacturer itself.

 

[LeonidK]

I've heard the phrase "all Geithains sound the same" so many times that I was not surprised They did use a subwoofer with them though. There are more dealers than just him, I bought mine from a dealer in Bavaria.

 

[yanni]

OK. Didn't know that there are other dealers. Wrote you a PM. Yes they were using a Sub indeed. A new, tiny prototype.

 

[richard12511]

I would also look into the Genelec 8361a if possible. They compare favorably to the Neumann KH-420 and are also coaxial so they have great directivity in both the horizontal and vertical domain. Measurements are available for both the 8361a and KH-420 here at ASR.

I second looking at the Genelec 8361(The Ones). They offer better l dispersion characteristics than the ME Geithain, better listening window, and look to have smoother DI overall.

That said, I would also equally consider the Geithain. They should have the power/spl advantage, as well as the advantage of cardioid dispersion. You can add those cardioid dispersion characteristics to the Genelec via the W371A module, but at that point you’re paying more than you would for the MEG.

Where I live, MEG is not an option, but Genelec is everywhere. If I had access to both, I’d weigh the pros and cons of both. Optimally, I’d try to listen to both side by side, blind.

None of this is to say that the KH420 doesn’t also have its own advantages. Honestly speaking, these are all state of the art speakers, and all of them can blow your mind.

 

[dachermann]

I am not aware of your room situation, however, if soffit-mounting is considered, you can only go with the Neumann.
Anyway, try to audit all of them and you will figure out by yourself, they are all great monitors. About service, MEG may not have a service network outside of EU. However, what can break down? Chassis? MEG can ship that everywhere. Electronics? They supply a schematics with every speaker - it’s all analog and easy to be fixed. To be frank, Neumann is more critical as if they change a chassis, the speaker has to be measured again (means back to Ireland).

 

[drdredd]

Thank you all for such insightful experiences. Truly invaluable to my search!

A little update for those interested, I am currently in Berlin and found a small studio that let me audition many speakers from the Geithain line! The studio is called audio-studiotechnik-glasa, the owner, Jens was very informative and helpful. If anyone needs help in germany getting a listen i can provide more info!

First impression… Jaw dropping, unreal. Those who praise the Geithain RL901K are not kidding. It was difficult not to purchase the speakers on the spot (i am looking to demo some atc, genelec, neumann and psi while im still in europe before making a decision.)

The imaging was like nothing i have ever heard. Perfect phantom image, i had to walk up to the demo wall to confirm there was no speaker in the center playing! In fact the sweetspot was so large i didnt lose the phantom image until i was very close to the front wall. Kind of insane.
The depth was informative, i could distinguish reverb tails with ease.
The bass was fat and there was plenty of it. Although i would describe the deep bass as heard more than felt.
i could clearly tell the sub and its harmonics. And when the harmonics were more present i could feel the bass more.
(Maybe adding some subs from their active sub line would help in this department later down the line.)
Although my girlfriend (not well versed in critical listening) said that is the first time she had heard real bass.

The demo started on the RL921K. My first impression of those was “i am hearing a little more nasal 1-2k range”. having read the whole line sounds similar from this thread, i got worried. Then we flipped over to the 901K and my goodness. It was like we stepped into the room with the music. That nasal tone was gone. Just for fun we flipped to some neumann kh310 he had in the room for reference… my goodness. Glad i heard that myself because i suddenly could hear many flaws in the kh310. The tone, the overall clarity. The kh310 felt distorted, hazy and “in a box”. My girlfriend looked over at me with her eyes popping wide open. She shook her head in disapproval!

I also had a chance to demo genelec 83xx series when they first came out in a local studio in the USA. I don't remember the experience as clearly as i would like since it was so long ago but can definitely say i remember loving the imaging but needing way more bass.
I am not by any means a bass head, but that seems to be a limiting factor in a lot of speakers. (Especially since that is what my current setup is struggling with.) I also do a lot of work in the hip-hop and EDM genres.

Jens told me many hip hop mixers love atc, so i am looking forward to seeing what they have to offer. Maybe they will have that “bass pressure” that i find is slightly missing in RL901K.
And i mean SLIGHT.
I could see how the Geithains excel at natural music. The depth of field really lends itself to a natural sound. However the bassy and dynamic rhythmic tracks i listened to still performed in spades. I was hearing details in some of my favorite edm tracks that i had never heard before… but they didnt necessarily make me want to dance.

I will be back with more info as i hear more of these studio monitors, aswell as hopefully results!!
Many years in the making coming together, how exciting!!

Cheers
DrDredd

 

[lowkeyoperations]

Pretty sure Club Der Visionaere had Geithan, but I think they replaced them with Martion recently.

 

[drdredd]

Pretty sure Club Der Visionaere had Geithan, but I think they replaced them with Martion recently.

View attachment 389769

Oh wow! That club looks awesome, i’ll go check out that spot today!

 

[Zaireeka]

Pay a visit to Max Schlundt since you're in Berlin, he has some interesting speakers to listen to. At the time I listened to the impressive GGNTKT M1s but he might have a demo pair of M3 now...

Startseite - Max Schlundt

Max Schlundt, Wir haben eine Vielzahl an HiFi und High-End Angebote. Erleben Sie Musik anstatt komplizierte Verkabelungs- und Aufstellungsfragen

maxschlundt.de

 

[goat76]

I would choose the speaker based on what music you listen to

1) Classical music, Jazz, Acoustic music: "Real instruments" Geithain. The founder of Geithain is a big classical fan and exactly knows how example an organ should sound like
2) I have not directly compared Geithain and Neumann. But I think Geithain is a bit more fun to listen too. Neumann maybe a bit more analytical
3) Genelec (80XX series) Thats the best one if you want to listen to a broad range of music. I think Rock music sounds way better on those than on the other speakers. Also modern "dance" music sounds better on the Genelec. I have compared the Genelec and Neumann directly next to each other in my room.

In my opinion, a loudspeaker's job is to reproduce sound no matter what it contains. If the speakers for one or another reason can't handle a certain genre of music, it is simply flawed as a sound reproduction tool.

• Real instruments should sound as real as they were managed to be recorded. If a certain speaker reproduces the content as sounding more real than another speaker, it's simply a better tool for reproducing the things that are on the recording. A certain flaw in a loudspeaker should never be able to make instruments sound more real.
• A loudspeaker can't be overly analytical but it can exaggerate things like too much energy in the treble area, but that is more of a flaw than an analytical quality.
• Rock music and any other music genre is just sound from a reproduction standpoint, and a loudspeaker's job is to reproduce that sound equally as well no matter what that sound contains. It shouldn't matter if it's an electric guitar, a piano, a violin, or an organ, a good loudspeaker should be able to handle them all equally. It's all about the reproduction of sounds and how convincing those instruments end up sounding should be down to how well they were recorded, nothing else.

I would choose the loudspeaker that can handle all types of music, as that is proof of an overall better tool for reproducing sound.

 

[Paffi]

I would choose the loudspeaker that can handle all types of music, as that is proof of an overall better tool for reproducing sound.

Unfortunately, this loudspeaker does not exist - at least to my experience, I´m currently making (Thought just like you until a couple of days ago). I just heard horns - they make it hard fun do listen to compressed music - they give you emotions and the need to dance - which you don´t want to hear on speakers like geithain, genelec, neumann or kef. While the latter ones sound great with good produced music, but boring with compressed masterings. So indeed, I think it depends on the music you listen to and for what purpose: for work (mastering, mixing) or fun. Of course you can argument, you want to hear it, like the music was produced - but then you miss a lot of fun or exclude many albums from your listening queue.

 

[Purité Audio]

Loudspeakers don’t know what they are playing, transparent designs just reproduce the file whether that recording is good or bad.
Transparent loudspeakers which work with the room is about as good as you can get .
Keith

 

[Paffi]

Loudspeakers don’t know what they are playing, transparent designs just reproduce the file whether that recording is good or bad.
Transparent loudspeakers which work with the room is about as good as you can get .
Keith

Yes, with the consequence, that bad recordings (but still good music) sounds bad and is not fun to listen to. So you exclude a big music library - everybode has to decide, if he wants to which depends on your favourite music and how that is produced.

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes, with the consequence, that bad recordings (but still good music) sounds bad and is not fun to listen to. So you exclude a big music library - everybode has to decide, if he wants to which depends on your favourite music and how that is produced.

But a poor loudspeaker will not improve poor recordings it will though ruin good recordings.
Keith

 

[Pearljam5000]

Unfortunately, this loudspeaker does not exist -

The perfect speaker does not exi...