Fosi Audio V3 Amplifier Review

[amirm]

Low cost by stealing and counterfeiting is fine? Great.

Nonsense. They have stolen nothing. Where on earth you get ideas like this? They have sourced a minor component which may or may not be counterfeit. Even if it is so, you have no idea if they did this intentionally or not.

If it bothers you that the one part that I tested and produces great performance may not be original, then purchase the unit and buy the genuine IC and put it in there. It doesn't bother me none for the reason I mentioned (that they are sourcing a very expensive amplifier IC from TI relative to the cost of this opamp).

 

[Verig]

It would be much nicer to use whatever components that do the job properly. And advertise as such. Then ASR testing would show that you don't need big brand expensive components to build something good. Perhaps the recognition of previously no-name manufacturers would rise and some of this marketing nonsense would go away.
Of course I know TI etc. are not losing much here. It's just that this type of activity is not helping at all when it comes to opinions about cheap and good gear.

 

[dr_mick51]

There is nothing "morally grey" here. You are buying an amp that performs better than majority of amplifiers out there regardless of price. the substitutes are peformant and precisely what I tested that is resulting in folks buying it. The op-amp is socketed so go ahead and get genuine one if you like. On the inductor, I am not losing sleep over that.

Let's not find a reason to complain about everything I review here. There are plenty of products that screw their customers by delivering atrocious performance and charge a ton of money to boot. That is where you want to direct your complaints, not at a $100 amp that produces so much clean power.

I agree. I am being realistic, for this price you are getting a heck of an amplifier.
When I was mentioning about the fake/relabeled opamps I was not doing it in a sense of complain. I was trying to make people realize about the benefits of switching to better opamps.
The measurements Amir did were using those fake opamps. This leaves room for improvement by using some better and legit opamps , as I did.
I am not discouraging people to buy this amp. It's totally the opposite. Buy it. This amp is 2-3 times better than the aging Aiyima A07. Play with it. Mod it if you want. Replace power supplies.

 

[Lux_ury]

These little OP amp chips are just Eprom chips I could rig up something and programme the data and store it. By changing the data its uniquely my chipset that anyone can copy. Just like people who change Engine ECUs for fuel, oxygen & detonation timmings. Exactly same results too lean, too rich, kill the engine quicker!
Quality of the ic's and everything surrounding it is way more important to me.

 

[TheBatsEar]

If they made a penny or two on an op-amp, they would be lucky. Whereas they are making whole dollars on the class D amp IC. So I would not shed any tear for them.

Doesn't matter if you think it's a victimless crime.
Doesn't matter if you think it's ok because the measurements are ok.
Doesn't matter if others do it all the time.
Doesn't matter if they knew it or not.

What if i started a review site, but because it's cheaper i used your name and reviews to sell something like cable-lifters?
I mean, the reviews would still be good, wouldn't they?
Top of the class graphs too, who would complain?
I could run that site far cheaper and with higher profit than you.

They have sourced a minor component which may or may not be counterfeit.

True, it needs to be verified. The part isn't minor however, if it where, the source would have not troubled with a false marking at all.
It's also a fairly pricey part at possible 5 cents for a fake and likely more than 20 cents for the original.

A company like Cambridge Audio or Focal or Boxem would do the following:

• start an investigation
• release the result
• if fake parts are found
  • fire the head of procurement out of a cannon, into the sun
  • apologize
  • replace the parts or make the customer and TI whole
  • demand money as compensation for lost reputation from the source of the fake parts
  • install a procedure to make sure no fake parts are bought in the future

Let's see what Fosi Audio does.

Even if it is so, you have no idea if they did this intentionally or not.

Doesn't matter. It's their onus to conduct their business lawfully.

One last thing, what a time to be alive and what a great site where this can be discovered and discussed.

 

[TheBatsEar]

The measurements Amir did were using those fake opamps. This leaves room for improvement

Maybe this could be a cue for @amirm or someone else to measure some of them and explain everything about OP amps in a video? *hint* *hint*

 

[notsodeadlizard]

Yet another dull $10 (manufacturing cost) box.
Yet another dull TPA3255, there are thousands PCBs based on this IC on alibaba and elsewhere.
Yet another "sudden event" of counterfeited components.
And there are not a single idea, not a single thought, not a single glimpse of novelty, only the cheap labor of unknown Chinese solderers, assemblers and packers.
Welcome to the endless boredom and despondency or a "new audiophilia world", God forgive me.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Yet another dull TPA3255, there are thousands PCBs based on this IC on alibaba and elsewhere.

This one measures good and doesn't fall into heat protection every five minutes. Makes it a bit better than the other offerings on the market. How is that bad?

Yet another "sudden event" of counterfeited components.

Not confirmed mind you, but yeah.

And there are not a single idea, not a single thought, not a single glimpse of novelty, only the cheap labor of unknown Chinese solderers, assemblers and packers.

The same can be said about German Kuckucksuhren.
They get made for hundreds of years almost unchanged, by unknown German workers, assemblers and packers.
They even look all alike to me.

It's sad really.

Welcome to the endless boredom and despondency or a "new audiophilia world", God forgive me.

You are free to look into other market segments. It's a choice, Mopey McMopeface.

 

[sarumbear]

Low cost by stealing and counterfeiting is fine? Great.

How do you know it is counterfeit? For all we know it could be licensed by TI. You are slandering...

 

[Zek]

Yet another "sudden event" of counterfeited components.

Looking at pictures of the inside of the V3 and the ad pictures, it looks like the red output block capacitors are not original Wima (no markings on them).

 

[Valvetubehead]

The politics of dancing At least try to enjoy music in your ear holes.

 

[TheBatsEar]

How do you know it is counterfeit?

You measure them and compare with the specsheet.
Slew rates, offset voltages, these are things giving them away.
Also markings, engravings, scanlines from removed previous markings, the metal alloy used in the legs, material of the casing.

Looking at pictures of the inside of the V3 and the ad pictures, it looks like the red output block capacitors are not original Wima (no markings on them).

Wouldn't be surprised, but again, this needs to be verified as well.

 

[Verig]

How do you know it is counterfeit? For all we know it could be licensed by TI. You are slandering...

Ok, so TI, Wima etc. licenced products just look different so there is never any way to know what is real?
I'm not interested in this specific case really. I'm talking about what is right and what could be done better.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I'm talking about what is right and what could be done better.

It appears that everything on that matter has been said, just not yet by everyone.
Let's see if and what @Fosi Audio can say about this next week.

 

[TonyJZX]

a famous man once said 'if there's any doubt, there is no doubt'

if would not surprise me is all the components in this unit are suspect... i mean we're not trying to put a submarine submersible on the deck of the Titanic here... i dont expect a 'chain of custody' of every component here

but it seems incredibly ballsy to have fake components on a high profile kickstarter?

i mean this is their website:

'Japanese' NCC
Capacitors 63V/2200uF

'Japanese' Sumida
Audio Inductors

'German' WIMA
Capacitors

'Japanese' ELNA
Capacitors

my air quotes

the way i look at it is that they were able to get this kind of performance with fake parts... imagine what they could do with real stuff!

 

[Valvetubehead]

Ok let’s crack ‘‘em all open and see what shakes out starting with Topping LA90 … who’s dri on this?

 

[alvigg]

Maybe this could be a cue for @amirm or someone else to measure some of them and explain everything about OP amps in a video? *hint* *hint*

love to see this.

 

[sarumbear]

You measure them and compare with the specsheet.
Slew rates, offset voltages, these are things giving them away.
Also markings, engravings, scanlines from removed previous markings, the metal alloy used in the legs, material of the casing.

You need to learn about IC manufacturing before making comments on something you have no idea. For starters check the dictionary on the meaning of counterfeit.

A licensed part can easily have different specs. License does not guarantee specs.

 

[sarumbear]

Ok, so TI, Wima etc. licenced products just look different so there is never any way to know what is real?

For you yes. Why would you understand IC manufacturing?

 

[Verig]

For you yes. Why would you understand IC manufacturing?

You could guide me (and many others) to some references how it works. Perhaps with some images to go. I fully appreciate that things are not always as they seem but asking why would I understand is not very fruitful.
You're saying that we can't be sure by looking or by measuring. So there is no way to know what is real/licenced and what is not? Perhaps, I have no problem with the general idea. But why would I take your word for it?