Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[Sokel]

If you aren't monitoring though, I don't think it applies. 1236A is an insane speaker.

Room volume dictates distances,someone of the designers in the Genelec forum explained this in length and insisted in recommended distances and room volume limitations and needs.
In far field when direct and reverberation sound balance or sometimes the later dominates means it has to travel longer distances,reflect and travel the same distances and so on...
That gives a huge penalty in fidelity and SPL both.There's a reason big speakers exist.
And if a simple 75-80db listening looks like that (see the 109db(Z) up the top?) there's an absolute need to maintain both:

 

[teashea]

Under this conditions it will be true for almost any speaker, not just for specific nearfield monitors. A room with empty hard reflective walls (modern lifestyle) will always sound horrible, regardless of the speaker type.

That is an overstatement. If the room is large enough and the speakers are placed toward the center of the room, and if the listening position is very close to the monitors (ie one meter), then the room reflections can easily be 30dB below the signal level and will have minimal influence. Physics.

 

[LTig]

That is an overstatement. If the room is large enough and the speakers are placed toward the center of the room, and if the listening position is very close to the monitors (ie one meter), then the room reflections can easily be 30dB below the signal level and will have minimal influence. Physics.

That is true, but far from reality regarding home entertainmant or ads showing expensive hifi speakers in such large and modern looking lifestyle surroundings.

 

[fuzzychaos]

That is an overstatement. If the room is large enough and the speakers are placed toward the center of the room, and if the listening position is very close to the monitors (ie one meter), then the room reflections can easily be 30dB below the signal level and will have minimal influence. Physics.

Lol, sure, but unlikely anyone does this. The VAST majority of listeners are in rooms with various problems. Even a lot of home studios are less than ideal ( but you sit closer to minimize the indirect sound and maximize the direct sound. Home users, with every speaker, will have to deal with the room. Just the way it is.

 

[teashea]

That is true, but far from reality regarding home entertainmant or ads showing expensive hifi speakers in such large and modern looking lifestyle surroundings.

Not necessarily. A room can easily be large enough so that the reflection can be down more than 20 dB from the direct signal.

The directionality of the speaker is also an aid in this regard. The KH150's directionality, as shown my Amir, help in this regard.

 

[thewas]

Okay, so a limiter and a very steep high pass filter below Fb. That's... not that extraordinary.

Correct, what is not ordinary though is that the woofer was designed with a more linear suspension in its operating band which is not done in typical designs to avoid its mechanical damage at overloads.

 

[dfuller]

Correct, what is not ordinary though is that the woofer was designed with a more linear suspension in its operating band which is not done in typical designs to avoid its mechanical damage at overloads.

Yep, it's a really good driver design. Like really good.

 

[teashea]

In addition, the limited excursion is very important to preventing distortion and preventing damage to the driver.

 

[Marc v E]

Correct, what is not ordinary though is that the woofer was designed with a more linear suspension in its operating band which is not done in typical designs to avoid its mechanical damage at overloads.

I think B&O applies the same technique. It's called ABL. Never gave it much thought until this review.

 

[Sancus]

This is how Genelec specs the distance recommendation in addition to SPL.

When reading that chart, it's very, very important to realize that the critical distance is heavily affected by the room size.

If you don't understand this, you might think that different Ones will produce direct sound dominance at different distances, but they won't do that at all. The ONLY reason the chart is different for the 8361A vs 8331A is because the room sizes are different.

 

[tifune]

Thoughts on 150's + subs vs. D&D 8C? I still haven't heard cardioid effect that extends so low; I'm not sure how effective it would be vs. the 150's slightly narrower dispersion especially in longer listening distance (18' in my case, although I do own DLBC which I presume would help)

 

[dshreter]

When reading that chart, it's very, very important to realize that the critical distance is heavily affected by the room size.

If you don't understand this, you might think that different Ones will produce direct sound dominance at different distances, but they won't do that at all. The ONLY reason the chart is different for the 8361A vs 8331A is because the room sizes are different.

So the chart is primarily saying bigger rooms have more direct sound at a given distance? I definitely didn’t realize that was most of what the chart implied - it just goes back to SPL requirements then.

 

[danbei]

When reading that chart, it's very, very important to realize that the critical distance is heavily affected by the room size.

If you don't understand this, you might think that different Ones will produce direct sound dominance at different distances, but they won't do that at all. The ONLY reason the chart is different for the 8361A vs 8331A is because the room sizes are different.

How much the narrower directivity in mid-bass from the bigger one affects direct sound dominance?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Thoughts on 150's + subs vs. D&D 8C? I still haven't heard cardioid effect that extends so low; I'm not sure how effective it would be vs. the 150's slightly narrower dispersion especially in longer listening distance (18' in my case, although I do own DLBC which I presume would help)

I listened to the KH150 (without sub and without EQ) and the 8c after another in the same room (12sqm, around 2 meters distance). They sounded very different, the 8cs had a much wider "soundstage". In this case i suggest you try listening to them.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Thoughts on 150's + subs vs. D&D 8C? I still haven't heard cardioid effect that extends so low; I'm not sure how effective it would be vs. the 150's slightly narrower dispersion especially in longer listening distance (18' in my case, although I do own DLBC which I presume would help)

I'm running KH150s + Rythmik Audio E22 subwoofer + miniDSP FLEX (DL) and can't be happier. After calibrating my system with Dirac Live and comparing with it with Neumann's MA1 app, decided to return the MA1 mic back to Sweetwater. Like I mentioned before, if you are going to run non Neumann subwoofers with KH150s, then the MA1 app is useless regarding integration and bass management as only a Neumann KH750 can turn ON the bass management feature.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I listened to the KH150 (without sub and without EQ) and the 8c after another in the same room (12sqm, around 2 meters distance). They sounded very different, the 8cs had a much wider "soundstage". In this case i suggest you try listening to them.

What did you think of the KH150 in general?

 

[teashea]

I listened to the KH150 (without sub and without EQ) and the 8c after another in the same room (12sqm, around 2 meters distance). They sounded very different, the 8cs had a much wider "soundstage". In this case i suggest you try listening to them.

.... and this is one of the reasons that KH150's are better monitors for studio use. Ideally KH 150's should be used nearfield. It is not desirable for the dispersion of a nearfield monitor to be too wide since this increases the amount of reflected sound that the engineer hears. Ideally, for a nearfield monitor, all of the sound would be direct and none would be reflected.

 

[fuzzychaos]

.... and this is one of the reasons that KH150's are better monitors for studio use. Ideally KH 150's should be used nearfield. It is not desirable for the dispersion of a nearfield monitor to be too wide since this increases the amount of reflected sound that the engineer hears. Ideally, for a nearfield monitor, all of the sound would be direct and none would be reflected.

Sure, IF you are using them for studio mixing and mastering. Using them as home speakers it is less concerning as all speakers have room boundary and reflection issues. Sure, a waveguide can be tricky, but room treatment, positioning, and DSP can minimize any effect.

I know I sound like a broken record, but the KH 150's are good, no, great home speakers regardless of their intended use. Neumann says they work well, and Genelec makes the G series and 6040r which are studio monitors sold as hifi home speakers, waveguide and all.

 

[samysound]

.... and this is one of the reasons that KH150's are better monitors for studio use. Ideally KH 150's should be used nearfield. It is not desirable for the dispersion of a nearfield monitor to be too wide since this increases the amount of reflected sound that the engineer hears. Ideally, for a nearfield monitor, all of the sound would be direct and none would be reflected.

Actually you want wider dispersion near field so you remain in the sweet spot when you move your head around. At greater distances you would want narrower dispersion IF you want to minimize reflected sound.

Also, the point has been made that dispersion width is more of preference thing for recreational listening. Pro use may want more direct sound for obvious reasons

 

[teashea]

The dispersion of the KH150 is plenty wide for one to move his/hear head at nearfiled distances.