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Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

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teashea

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Can you not create profiles to mimic other sound systems with the dsp.
I don't think one could do this effectively. There are too many parameters and it would be to complicated- many room and speaker factors. I like simplicity. KISS. I would rather use separate systems. I do have 120's/750, 310's and the 150's in my main studio room. Here are a couple of the other systems I use.
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Pritaudio

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I don't think one could do this effectively. There are too many parameters and it would be to complicated- many room and speaker factors. I like simplicity. KISS. I would rather use separate systems. I do have 120's/750, 310's and the 150's in my main studio room. Here are a couple of the other systems I use. View attachment 256256View attachment 256257View attachment 256258
Oh I see, the guitars hold up the sofa and provide some rigidity for reflections!
 

teashea

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Sorry, what is phpex subwoofers?
also, someone else on this thread returned the ma1 as he used the Minidsp flex to integrate non Neumann subs.
it has more tweak ability then the Neumann software.
typo - hypex - the ones you referred to
 

gino1961

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The soundstage is quite good - nice spread of sound and it is easy to point to the placement of the instruments/vocals across the soundstage.
Hi thanks a lot I know that was a trivial question but i had to ask For me a well developed in 3D soundstage is everything ... almost
 

enricoclaudio

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typo - hypex - the ones you referred to

Hypex is NOT a subwoofer brand. Hypex makes Class D amplifier modules that are used in amplifiers for many applications, one of those are subwoofer amps. Rythmik Audio subwoofers use Hypex amp modules in some of their subwoofers. Rythmik Audio subwoofers are used by mayor recording and mastering studios around the world, including Sterling Sound NY/Nashville. I'm currently using a Rythmik Audio E22 subwoofer with my pair of Neumann KH150s and a miniDSP FLEX TRS with Dirac Live and I'm getting MUCH better results than with MA1 mic/app. I get flat response down to single digits in my 12' x 13' room and integration between mains and subwoofer is perfectly aligned. For those using non Neumann subwoofers like the KH750, the MA1 mic/app is useless because you can't do bass management or properly integrate the subwoofer with the mains using the MA1 app as bass management is enable only when a KH750 subwoofer is detected.
 

Pritaudio

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Hypex is NOT a subwoofer brand. Hypex makes Class D amplifier modules that are used in amplifiers for many applications, one of those are subwoofer amps. Rythmik Audio subwoofers use Hypex amp modules in some of their subwoofers. Rythmik Audio subwoofers are used by mayor recording and mastering studios around the world, including Sterling Sound NY/Nashville. I'm currently using a Rythmik Audio E22 subwoofer with my pair of Neumann KH150s and a miniDSP FLEX TRS with Dirac Live and I'm getting MUCH better results than with MA1 mic/app. I get flat response down to single digits in my 12' x 13' room and integration between mains and subwoofer is perfectly aligned. For those using non Neumann subwoofers like the KH750, the MA1 mic/app is useless because you can't do bass management or properly integrate the subwoofer with the mains using the MA1 app as bass management is enable only when a KH750 subwoofer is detected.
Ever thought of using dual subs with the kh150.

we don’t have rythmik here in the uk.
I’m forced to use svs which has gained popularity over here too. Thankfully has some dsp of its own.

also considering open baffle subwoofers. This is what I meant with hypex amps Paired.
it being almost diy enclosures, there poses many problems with the design outcome especially at the higher frequency crossover.
 

teashea

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For my purposes with my KH150's I do not need for them to have lower bass. I have other systems for that. But I realize that some people might, and for that I think pairing them with two KH750's would be a wonderful combination.
 

teashea

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How Close would KH150 +a sub get to KH420?
I have not heard this combination so I cannot comment, but it is an interesting question. A pair of KH310's with a very good sub should be right in there from what I have read. But the KH150's and a sub in comparison to KH420's???? I just read the 43 pages of comments on the 420 herein and they are quite outstanding. Without hearing them all, I would unhesitatingly pick the KH420's. But others should have better information than I have.

This is not to say I don't love and admire my KH150's - I do, very much.

One issue would be the purpose. For very nearfield monitoring (ie 1.3 meters) I don't think I would choose 420's without more information on this. I think they need bit of room - maybe 2 meters for optimum sound, but I could be wrong.
 

Pearljam5000

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I have not heard this combination so I cannot comment, but it is an interesting question. A pair of KH310's with a very good sub should be right in there from what I have read. But the KH150's and a sub in comparison to KH420's???? I just read the 43 pages of comments on the 420 herein and they are quite outstanding. Without hearing them all, I would unhesitatingly pick the KH420's. But others should have better information than I have.

This is not to say I don't love and admire my KH150's - I do, very much.

One issue would be the purpose. For very nearfield monitoring (ie 1.3 meters) I don't think I would choose 420's without more information on this. I think they need bit of room - maybe 2 meters for optimum sound, but I could be wrong.
KH310 + a sub would be even closer to KH420 Becaue they're a 3-way
The question is, is it possible for much less money to get to KH420 level.
 

3125b

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But the KH150's and a sub in comparison to KH420's????
Good question. Ultimately one would need to hear them side by side to make a comparison, but looking at the data and disregarding bass extension - up to 96dB the KH150 hold its own and performs about as well as the much bigger KH420 (KH420 on the right):
Neumann KH 150 two-way studio monitor speaker active THD Distortion Measurement.png
Neumann KH-420 G Measurements THD Distortion Active 3-way studio monitor speaker.png

They might even be using the same tweeter, idk.

If we are talking max. SPL, obviously there are no 106dB results for the 150s, however looking at the S&R measurements (https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/neumann-kh-150-2-wege-nearfield-monitor-im-test/) the midwoofer can't really do that, about 103dB (single speaker) down to a feasible sub-crossover at 100Hz is pretty good though, that's loud. The KH420 with its dedicated 10" woofer and much bigger cabinet obviously has a huge advantage.
 

dfuller

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Good question. Ultimately one would need to hear them side by side to make a comparison, but looking at the data and disregarding bass extension - up to 96dB the KH150 hold its own and performs about as well as the much bigger KH420 (KH420 on the right):
View attachment 256294View attachment 256295
They might even be using the same tweeter, idk.

If we are talking max. SPL, obviously there are no 106dB results for the 150s, however looking at the S&R measurements (https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/neumann-kh-150-2-wege-nearfield-monitor-im-test/) the midwoofer can't really do that, about 103dB (single speaker) down to a feasible sub-crossover at 100Hz is pretty good though, that's loud. The KH420 with its dedicated 10" woofer and much bigger cabinet obviously has a huge advantage.
This does unfortunately miss the issue that is IMD; the KH150 will have higher IMD than the KH310 (or KH420, for that matter) by virtue of being a 2-way design.
 

3125b

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by virtue of being a 2-way design.
I don‘t think that‘s necessarily true.
Looking at Erins IMD measurements the results of 3-way speakers tend to be better, but there are quite a few simple 2-way bookshelf speakers that outperform the weaker among the 3-way designs.
It‘s probably true that the Neumann 3-way speakers have lower IMD than the Neumann 2-ways, however I‘m unwilling to accept that IMD is an issue with the KH150 in the first place without any measurements backing that up. Plus using them with a sub will help to a certain (albeit unknown without measurements) degree.
 

gino1961

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Good question. Ultimately one would need to hear them side by side to make a comparison, but looking at the data and disregarding bass extension - up to 96dB the KH150 hold its own and performs about as well as the much bigger KH420 (KH420 on the right):
View attachment 256294View attachment 256295
They might even be using the same tweeter, idk.

If we are talking max. SPL, obviously there are no 106dB results for the 150s, however looking at the S&R measurements (https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/neumann-kh-150-2-wege-nearfield-monitor-im-test/) the midwoofer can't really do that, about 103dB (single speaker) down to a feasible sub-crossover at 100Hz is pretty good though, that's loud. The KH420 with its dedicated 10" woofer and much bigger cabinet obviously has a huge advantage.
if the second plot is for the 420 the small difference in distortion is quite surprising Strange
how is it possible that a small 6.5" woofer has similar performance in the low range to a big 10" :oops:
personally i would choose 150 plus one sub per channel option any day
 
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teashea

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Good question. Ultimately one would need to hear them side by side to make a comparison, but looking at the data and disregarding bass extension - up to 96dB the KH150 hold its own and performs about as well as the much bigger KH420 (KH420 on the right):
View attachment 256294View attachment 256295
They might even be using the same tweeter, idk.

If we are talking max. SPL, obviously there are no 106dB results for the 150s, however looking at the S&R measurements (https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/neumann-kh-150-2-wege-nearfield-monitor-im-test/) the midwoofer can't really do that, about 103dB (single speaker) down to a feasible sub-crossover at 100Hz is pretty good though, that's loud. The KH420 with its dedicated 10" woofer and much bigger cabinet obviously has a huge advantage.
I think your point about the larger cabinet is well taken. That does make a difference.
 

teashea

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I don‘t think that‘s necessarily true.
Looking at Erins IMD measurements the results of 3-way speakers tend to be better, but there are quite a few simple 2-way bookshelf speakers that outperform the weaker among the 3-way designs.
It‘s probably true that the Neumann 3-way speakers have lower IMD than the Neumann 2-ways, however I‘m unwilling to accept that IMD is an issue with the KH150 in the first place without any measurements backing that up. Plus using them with a sub will help to a certain (albeit unknown without measurements) degree.
I had expected that the mids of the 310's would be a bit smoother. However I will say that in preliminary listening of my KH310's and KH150's, the midrange of the 150's is just as smooth. I credit this to the amazing engineering by Neumann - including the DSP design. It is quite something. I am really enjoying listening to a wide varierty of music on the 150's, including several female vocalists (in different genre/styles), and it is quite satisfying.
 

Pearljam5000

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I had expected that the mids of the 310's would be a bit smoother. However I will say that in preliminary listening of my KH310's and KH150's, the midrange of the 150's is just as smooth. I credit this to the amazing engineering by Neumann - including the DSP design. It is quite something. I am really enjoying listening to a wide varierty of music on the 150's, including several female vocalists (in different genre/styles), and it is quite satisfying.
In blind test, would you be able to tell the difference between KH150 and KH310?
 

Sancus

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if the second plot is for the 420 the small difference in distortion is quite surprising Strange
personally i would choose 150 plus one sub per side any day
You can't extrapolate a distortion measurement at one SPL to a higher one because distortion is nonlinear, it doesn't increase proportionally. When a speaker nears its limits, it skyrockets very quickly. So if 96dB is not the limit of the speaker, the distortion levels tell you very little about how loud it can actually play.

Fortunately in this case we have apples-to-apples S&R SPL tests for both speakers, and as you can see, the KH420 plays about 6-7dB louder than the 150 below 100hz, and above that the margin grows to as much as 14dB(!!!) at 400hz and 9dB at 1khz (midrange dome is stronk). This is a lot -- 6dB is the margin between the 8351B and 8361A for example.

So yes, the KH420 does play much louder at all SPLs than the KH150 even while also having more extension.

1673409253919.png


KH150MAX-580x432.png


P.S. These two speakers are actually a good example of "be careful with distortion measurements" because the KH150 has almost no difference between its 10% and 3% THD capabilities, but the KH420 has quite a bit. So not only are they different capabilities, but the behaviour of their woofers as they near limits seem to be different as well.
 
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