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New Hypex Nilai500DIY modules )

SSassen

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LOL. Welcome to ASR.

Try posting something partially useful for your next post. :facepalm:

You have questions still? Really? Alright, I won't judge, lets hear 'm, I'll go poor myself a second cup of coffee and get comfortable behind the PC while you work your keyboard.
 

voodooless

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Do you really think Hypex is going to publish schematics so that some Joe Ignoranus with a 150W soldering iron can lift some more pads on the PCB after he's tried to fit 'better' capacitors and resistors his audiofool buddies told him 'sound better'. What's the incentive here considering 1)?
Welcome here :) To be fair, I still have a UcD400 that about 15 years ago, you helped me with, which included replaced capacitors, and a special arrangement of caps in the driver power supply. It still works and sounds as good as it ever did though :) I do not have a 150W iron though...

As for copy-cats: it should not be too hard to just reverse engineer the products. You can actually find some copied UcD stuff on AliExpress. Haven't seen any Ncore though.

As for support from Hypex, I'd be much more worried about the companies using the OEM modules. Will they also be as generous? Also, it's nice when you live close to the Netherlands to simply send something in. What about Down Under, where @restorer-john comes from? It's a lot more hassle to send it over. Giving it to a local repair shop would be much more convenient.
 

SSassen

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Welcome here :) To be fair, I still have a UcD400 that about 15 years ago, you helped me with, which included replaced capacitors, and a special arrangement of caps in the driver power supply. It still works and sounds as good as it ever did though :) I do not have a 150W iron though...

As for copy-cats: it should not be too hard to just reverse engineer the products. You can actually find some copied UcD stuff on AliExpress. Haven't seen any Ncore though.

As for support from Hypex, I'd be much more worried about the companies using the OEM modules. Will they also be as generous? Also, it's nice when you live close to the Netherlands to simply send something in. What about Down Under, where @restorer-john comes from? It's a lot more hassle to send it over. Giving it to a local repair shop would be much more convenient.

I remember that, back then I was still young and innocent, just look at me now!

And yes, of course it can be reverse engineered, anything can if you have enough time and resources. But that's going to take significant effort, so their ROI might not work out favorable, as a direct copy would most certainly meet with legal pushback from Hypex (and rightfully so).

I've extensively used the OEM modules in products built for customers, and have gotten the same excellent customer service when the customer bodged a module. On that note I have a rather amusing story of a customer using Speakon connectors for power and plugging them into the speaker output. The result wasn't pretty.
 

voodooless

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I remember that, back then I was still young and innocent, just look at me now!
Weren't we all ;)
And yes, of course it can be reverse engineered, anything can if you have enough time and resources. But that's going to take significant effort, so their ROI might not work out favorable, as a direct copy would most certainly meet with legal pushback from Hypex (and rightfully so).
No doubt it's a much higher barrier.
I've extensively used the OEM modules in products built for customers, and have gotten the same excellent customer service when the customer bodged a module. On that note I have a rather amusing story of a customer using Speakon connectors for power and plugging them into the speaker output. The result wasn't pretty.
It's not about the service that Hypex delivers. It's about what kind of service the OEM users deliver.
 

SSassen

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It's not about the service that Hypex delivers. It's about what kind of service the OEM users deliver.

Well, as far as I know most of them just keep the OEM modules in stock and can quickly service any defective modules as they're obviously quick to swap out without any soldering required. I typically don't even bother repairing them myself, and send them in for repair to Hypex. I realize the cost may be higher if you're abroad, but that can be billed to the end user I'm sure.
 
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daniboun

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Hi amigos,

Will do a DIY project based on the new Hypex Nilai ) expect soon
 
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ManFromKerala

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@Rick Sykora
The DIY modules were bought directly from Hypex over time.

A few points.
1. I have not found the hypex support staff wanting. They are generally helpful and accommodative. As I mentioned, unless one is perhaps in EU, the shipping costs back-n-forth for RMA, and consequent customs duty (on shipping!) is more than the module cost. So not having the module repaired/inspected is nothing to do with Hypex.
2. I have 4 OEM modules that originally came with a kit I bought from a German vendor. They still work without issues. It was a pain to get it working, that is why I switched to the DIY modules. Even within that, the first lot of UCD400s seem to be a lot better "physical quality" - in the sense that they still run.
3. The DLCP was a fundamentally flawed product. I have not used NCores and the rest of the stuff.

All,

TLDR: we cant just conclude Hypex sucks all the way through. Certain modules, certain production runs (perhaps aided by not so optimal design) ended up in certain % of faults. Given my situation, I dont buy from Hypex. If I were in EU, I might have acted differently

Real life is complex - it is incorrect to summarize situations into one convenient label such as "class D has no life", or "Hypex sucks" :)
 

Ukraineguy

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From the AudioXpress link:

"As Hypex makes it clear (see interview) this is not the company's latest NCOREx technology which was announced last month. In fact, Nilai is a completely new amplifier technology. And as such, it is 10 times better than the original Ncore!

"We are extremely excited to announce this completely new Nilai Class D technology and a completely new amplifier module, the Nilai500DIY, for the DIY community. We have taken our exciting control-loop topology to a whole new level resulting in an immense performance upgrade compared to Ncore. The overall performance has increased by not less than 10 times!", says Hypex."


And silly old AudioXpress jumps on the company-driven hype bandwagon! Giddy up, you absolute clowns!

10 times better. Wow. Amazing. Let's see, shall we?

10 times better output power? Nope. Not remotely close.
10 times better signal to noise? Nope.
10 time less residual noise? Sorry.
10 times the frequency response/bandwidth? Not even near that.
10 times the warranty? No. What warranty? Do you even get a warranty?

10 times the hype and drivel? Yes! absolutely!

...the Dutch company says, is a completely new unique amplifier module that sets a new benchmark for high-end audio applications.

Benchmark for what? Self promotion? :facepalm:

I'll let you decide that...
Why do you think they named themselves 'hyp-ex'. Maybe that is short for 'hype exponential'.
 

Mnyb

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I told myself I wouldn't bite, but here we are, with a fresh new ASR account created and my keyboard dusted off as some people clearly need to be educated on why this will never happen and for good reasons, so lets grab the bull by the horns shall we?

1) Hypex offers some of the best customer service you'll find in this industry. You send your defective module in, even if you horribly botched it yourself, and they make sure they get it shipped back to you in a matter of days in perfect working order, usually at their cost. So that takes care of the 'what do I do when my module stops working'.

2) As for service manuals, schematics etc. it is abundantly clear you've not given this much (any?) thought, as the Chinese copycats would be all over that like flies over a big steaming turd loaf. Do you really think Hypex is going to publish schematics so that some Joe Ignoranus with a 150W soldering iron can lift some more pads on the PCB after he's tried to fit 'better' capacitors and resistors his audiofool buddies told him 'sound better'. What's the incentive here considering 1)?

3) As for EU legislation etc. let me be perfectly clear; the EU is the epitome of clusterf*cks when it comes to rules and regulations, at any level, about any subject, they keep shooting themselves in the foot whereas the people in the EU parliament are like the Roman upper-class of late, and we all know what happened to the Roman empire circa 500 AD right?

Anything I missed? No? Alright, time for my morning coffee, let me grab a cuppa.

Hmm it still reasonable to expect service manuals , IMO . For out of warranty repair and If the original business does not exist anymore products should be repairable by any skilled party.

Security by obscurity does not really work .
 

beren777

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May have already been posted, but the datasheets are available now.

As a cloddish "shove the thingies together and observe for sparks" self-assembler, I'm really excited to see that the new PS has specific connectors for momentary switches, trigger input, and PS On / Standby LED. Even I can figure out how to connect a green/amber LED to this thing.
 
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jmillar

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5 years acceptable, really? No way. I would be furious spending 1200 dollars and having it burn out in five years! Is the bar really that low?
Hypex could offer an "extended warranty" (for a surcharge) beyond the EU mandated 2 yrs.

Durability depends on "use case". If you use these amps at disco venues at a 18/7 rate in high load, high stress, high heat environments expect early attrition.

In "normal domestic audiophile use" I expect these thingies to last 10 yrs (or much more).

(The "old timers" may remember that the tube guys held that ss gear was flimsy and hard to fix. Déjà vu all over again.)
 
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My Hypex Nilai500DIY amplifier kit did in fact arrive yesterday as expected! I spent a couple hours in the afternoon building it, and then the entire evening listening obsessively in wonder.

It's packaged and set up beautifully, in order to get everything ready to go quickly. Minimal tools are required by the end user, just a pair of needle-nosed pliers, a small flathead screwdiver, a 12mm wrench, and a 7mm socket wrench. The quality is unquestionably present, in all kit components. The amplifier boards themselves are gorgeous and mounted on thick, polished aluminum. I more than half wish they were visible! The modules light up when powered, incidentally, which is slightly but attractively visible through the tiny holes in the top panel. The case is robust aluminum.

There is included an install guide. It's pretty good; there were a few steps where the Ikea-esque pictures confused me for a minute or two, but nothing I did couldn't be undone, and then redone properly, easily enough. The one step that was definitely unclear in the booklet is that you have to snap off the little board for the front panel LED from the left channel balanced connector board, but it obvious what to do, when you get there.

I won't say the build for me was exactly easy-peasy, but only because so many fasteners are tiny, and I'm 52 and not simply not very deft with tiny screws and such, and also I need some magnification to be able to manipulate them all into place. The design itself is as neat and clean as anyone could ask for, so if you're comfortable handling small objects, it should be a breeze. Even for myself, I'm guessing that, if it happens that I assemble any more of these, it would take me less the half the time it did yesterday, now that I get it. All in all I would say it was a fun assembly.

Of course what everyone wants to know is, did it work? How does it sound?

It works, with zero issues, and zero trouble-shooting required.

As for the sound, well I was going to make an crack involving my wife coming running from the kitchen, but actually something just as dubiously clichéd actually did happen. My dog, normally totally indifferent to anything coming out of my speakers (except the sound of other dogs barking), kept getting startled! And not because or just when I had the music turned up nice and loud. It's cute, really. I'm sure he'll get used to what's different about what he's hearing soon.

My old amp, in service for 23 years, is a Hafler DH500, itself originally a kit from around 1980. It's been refurbished, and honestly I've loved it. For its vintage, it's been outstanding. But it is unquestionably old technology. It has a fan, which is audible. Just gentle white noise, but still: that alone I'm glad to dispense with. It also draws a lot of current, even while idling. After all, it's rated at 250 watts per channel into 8 ohms, and it's class A/B, heavy on the A.

Probably the Hafler measures well for its age, but the Nilai500DIY undoubtedly measures way better. The question in my mind was, better enough that I'd notice?

Well. It's a subjective response, with zero blind testing, but absolutely, to me, it's noticeable!

Ok, I know how this works. It is easy without blind tests to be sure you're hearing a massive improvement where there in fact might not be anything actually distinguishable, outside of sighted testing. Yet, I'm a professional musician with conservatory training, who has also worked in the electroacoustic and recording/mastering realm for decades, so if there's an audible difference, I hope I'd hear it. And I say there's a difference.

The Nilai500DIY is actually far more of a improvement than I had expected! Among things I think I've noticed, beyond the indisputable absence of minor fan noise: the new amp has absolutely zero added hardness or harshness, even when cranked. It's like a window so transparent and without reflections, you can't even tell that a window is there at all.

Obviously, take all that with a healthy degree of cautionary skepticism.

Short answer: I am well pleased.

Incidentally, my dad is a professional (now retired) cabinet maker. He's going to be working on a replacement faceplate in some kind of exotic wood. We're going over some designs. The stock faceplate is fine, but I don't love it.

20221219_172216_HDR.jpg

20221219_173809_HDR.jpg
 
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Ra1zel

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so if there's an audible difference, I hope I'd hear it.
Well you see that's the problem. That also means you will want to hear a difference where there is none, even though you won't admit it.
 
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Well you see that's the problem. That also means you will want to hear a difference where there is none, even though you won't admit it.
Obviously, you did not read my whole post. Try again. There's no problem here.

I am well aware that to eliminate sighted bias, I need to do blind testing. That isn't easy to set up, so it may or may not happen. I am pleased with the results of the new amp regardless.

As for your remark, on the contrary, I do not want to think I hear a difference if there is actually none.

If there is a difference in the audible range, I do want to hear it, and I have good reason to believe via training and experience that it is likely I would. That is what I meant in the sentence you quoted, snipped out of context, where I make it clear I'm aware of how bias works.

And obviously I expect this purchase to be an upgrade, and cannot rule out bias as a result. I wouldn't have made the purchase otherwise! Who would? But I have every reasonable, objective reason to believe that it is, in fact, an upgrade.

If nothing else, it has objectively superior frequency response, way lower measured distortion, and no fan noise.
 
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Matias

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Congrats, very nice upgrade!
 

Ra1zel

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As for your remark, on the contrary, I do not want to think I hear a difference if there is actually none.

If there is a difference in the audible range, I do want to hear it, and I have good reason to believe via training and experience that it is likely I would.
Well OK but how do you know whether there is or isn't an audible difference beforehand? Sounds like when you think there won't be any you prime (bias) yourself for one outcome and vice versa.

Sorry for being such a pain :)
 
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