EC as in Electrical Conductivity

[Chrispy]

I believe in asking questions and making an informed decision rather than assuming that they have merit or not.

How about research before posting as to how many times this may have been covered already and why it needs to be mentioned again?

 

[McFly]

Conductivity is probably the wrong way to look at it.

Resistivity is the way to look at it.

All "conductive" materials will make an electrical signal go from end to end at the same time, it's just how much energy is lost as heat on the way there.

You could connect an amplifier to the end of a steel boat trailer and a speaker and loop the negative back with normal cable it would still work.

 

[syn08]

How about research before posting as to how many times this may have been covered already and why it needs to be mentioned again?

Naaah… stirring the pot is so much more entertaining.

Because a degree is not required to self answer such questions. Literacy, Google, Wikipedia, and a dose a common sense is all that’s needed.

So either the mother of stupidity is always pregnant and having multiples, or there’s somewhere a troll factory, working three shifts, in overdrive.

 

[Speedskater]

There are so many audiophiles (and marketers) repeating these myths and misunderstandings, it's easy for a person to get confused.
At first glance, doesn't it seem like higher conductivity would be a good thing for our signals? (the marketers hope so)

 

[Feyire]

I believe in asking questions and making an informed decision rather than assuming that they have merit or not.

A majority of the people who believe that the different materials make no audible difference, have never actually replaced their expensive copper cables with one made of the ferromagnetic metals such as iron, cobalt or nickel, because if they actually did, they'd be begging to go back to non-ferromagnetic metals after hearing the hysteresis distortion.

 

[solderdude]

For example: Instead of pure copper wire, what if I use pure silver wire?
What difference should I hear?

or would I be able to hear?

No difference in theory but it would depend on the cable length, diameter and load.

Also instead of gold plated (some kind of iron) binding posts vs pure copper binding post and banana plugs.

Gold plated looks nicer and does not corrode which is the main reason it is used for connectors. It still can get dirty and become problematic. When one plugs in and out thousands of time gold is not the best option but nickel plating would because it is less prone to wear.

Interlink cables differ from headphone and speaker cables and digital cables that need to link devices at very high speeds (video and high-res multichannel) all have different properties.

Copper, aluminium, silver etc all conduct all audio (and far above) in the same way. That is they will all have a completely flat frequency response. This does not change depending on the type of metal for electrical signals. The metals behave different when used in instruments which is where most of the 'different tone' nonsense in electrical connections seems to originate from.

Things that actually can make a difference with cables has more to do with its capacitance in combination with the source (driving) impedance and load impedance as well as resistance and inductance. Those effects depend on various factors. It can all be measured with a very high precision and to minute differences. Both with steady signals as well as complex signals.

There is nothing mysterious about any of it, despite the wonderous claims found everywhere.

 

[Killingbeans]

A majority of the people who believe that the different materials make no audible difference, have never actually replaced their expensive copper cables with one made of the ferromagnetic metals such as iron, cobalt or nickel, because if they actually did, they'd be begging to go back to non-ferromagnetic metals after hearing the hysteresis distortion.

Who actually does that? And why would they? Hysteresis distortion is definitely a thing in inductor cores and speaker motors, but would it really be the most decremental downside of using steel wire as audio cable?

Don't get me wrong. If it's demonstrable through math + physics and/or measurements, I'd gladly accept it, but I have a hard time embracing anything you say at face value, after I saw you claiming that audiophile fuses make an audible difference and that they are directional.

 

[fpitas]

You know how it works....people making loud claims on the interweb...

Oddly, the very same people often make tremendous profits off those who believe them.

 

[NikJi]

How about research before posting as to how many times this may have been covered already and why it needs to be mentioned again?

This is how I do research. I ask questions. If you don't approve of it, please don't respond to my questions.

 

[NikJi]

A majority of the people who believe that the different materials make no audible difference, have never actually replaced their expensive copper cables with one made of the ferromagnetic metals such as iron, cobalt or nickel, because if they actually did, they'd be begging to go back to non-ferromagnetic metals after hearing the hysteresis distortion.

is it the EC (ie resistance) that is making the difference or is it another property or properties that is inducing this distortion?

 

[Killingbeans]

Ferromagnetic materials build up magnetic flux in response to electric fields. They are used as cores in inductors to boost the inductance tremendously, but the downside is that the magnetic flux can only build up to a certain point before you reach so called 'core saturation'. After that you get really nasty amounts of distortion.

That's not what @Feyire is talking about though. Core saturation can be avoided fairly easily, and it's usually not a problem.

The build up and discharge of magnetic flux is however not perfectly linear itself. It exhibits hysteresis. And non-linearity = distortion.

But it's honestly not something I'm very knowledgeable about. I'll leave it to @Feyire, or some EE* with good knowledge of field (no pun intended), to give practical examples of how the flux build up can or can't cause audible distortion in cables made from high permeability metals.

*That EE is also more than welcome to point it out if some of the things I just wrote is complete nonsense.

 

[Chrispy]

This is how I do research. I ask questions. If you don't approve of it, please don't respond to my questions.

Well, that's not how it works generally, some actual research is expected on your part and specific questions perhaps....not just putting up some odd idea promoted on the poorer side of audiophilia.....so I will continue to comment. You still haven't made clear several things.....

 

[kongwee]

High humidly, high temperature 24/7, surround by sea. Silver is still the best option if I can afford.

 

[Chrispy]

High humidly, high temperature 24/7, surround by sea. Silver is still the best option if I can afford.

Sounds like Singapore. Don't get the connection to silver from there, tho....but usually I can't make much sense of your posts.

 

[NikJi]

Well, that's not how it works generally, some actual research is expected on your part and specific questions perhaps....not just putting up some odd idea promoted on the poorer side of audiophilia.....so I will continue to comment. You still haven't made clear several things.....

Sorry. That is the way YOU work. Don't push your ways of working onto others. Thanks for responding though.

 

[kongwee]

Sounds like Singapore. Don't get the connection to silver from there, tho....but usually I can't make much sense of your posts.

Yup, singapore very corrosive environment toward electronics. Not much sense if you don't encounter such environment.

 

[Chrispy]

Yup, singapore very corrosive environment toward electronics. Not much sense if you don't encounter such environment.

Or take appropriate measures to protect the gear to alleviate such concerns. You just seem to promote odd audiophilia opinion rather than anything actually practical, tho.....thus my comment.

 

[kongwee]

Or take appropriate measures to protect the gear to alleviate such concerns.

You can only slow down the process. For me, all my cable are silver plated, teflon coated, neutrik connectors for my mains. A peace of mind.

 

[Chrispy]

Sorry. That is the way YOU work. Don't push your ways of working onto others. Thanks for responding though.

It's not your private thread/forum is all I meant....you post, you'll get comments. I don't "work" a forum, I may participate in it, tho.....

 

[Chrispy]

You can only slow down the process. For me, all my cable are silver plated, teflon coated, neutrik connectors for my mains. A peace of mind.

That's some of the most sense I've ever seen you post. Not the silver or teflon parts particularly, tho.